Ahira's Hangar

Yeah LM!!! I've got ur liquid form right here!!!!:

The true human being is the meaning of the universe. He is a dancing star. He is the exploding singularity with infinite possibilities. <i></i>

LOL The planet he saw appeared to have continents that looked surprisingly like Northern Europe and North America. Ransom realized it was Earth he was seeing-Thulcandra, the Silent Planet <i></i>

I temporarily changed the color to black until we can change the theme...that OK? Further up, and further in!<i></i>

Just about done with TWL....

Man, I really don't like Foul. [give you back something broken]

I know that good cannot exist without evil, but it sure seems like the evil far out weighs the good in TCTC.

Although, we do only get small glimpses of life in the Land - relatively speaking. We are told of 'scores of centuries' of health & peace both before TC's first appearance(s) and the 2nd chronicles

*earthy ponders the implications of self-contradiction*

Hellfire!!! <i></i>

Oh, my. I didnt know that you hadnt finished the Chronicles. Did you see any spoilers? Life is a game, play it well, play it wisely. <i></i>

are u re-reading? If so how many times have u read the Chrons, Earthy?
If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't.
Lyall Watson
<i></i>

this is the 4th re-read. No need to worry about spoilers

ravers , maybe, but not spoilers!!

Just got to the meeting of the First, Pitchwife, Seadreamer & Honnisgrave.

The Haruchai literally make my heart swell! They are awesome in thier dedication & fidelity (a bit on the bullheaded side maybe, but...)!!!!

It has been probly 7-8 yrs since I last read TCTC <i></i>

Ah, I see now. You are getting ever closer to 100.... Never did He make two things the same; never did He utter one word twice. After earths, not better earths but beasts; after beasts not better beasts, but spirits. After a falling, not a recovery, but a new creation, not a third but the mode of change itself is changed forever. Blessed be He!<i></i>

I've been wanting 2 write some great treatise on Lord Foul 4 awhile now, as LF bugs me, he really does. This is VERY difficult 2 do, because 2 do so properly would involve a hell of alot of work and research. Almost the same type of work I continually put off when dreaming of writting about the Old Lords or what happens during times we are not aware of in the books. In order 2 even have an inkling of who and what LF truly is I (or u) would have 2 become a TCTC scholar. What this involves is reading the Chrons 10 times or more, having a bulletin board w/all Foul references the size of Melenkurion Skywier and then cross referencing everything. Whew!!!

After reading the 1st Chronicles my life was haunted by LF, I conjured up my own personal LF, Apex the Invisible. In the end Apex turned out 2 b a part of me I just couldn't face and had 2 accept. There's that "acceptance" factor, again, that SRD poses 4 the possible theme of the 3rd Chrons. What was strange about all the years that Apex haunted me was that I was in statis--almost as if that concept in my head terrified me 2 change, constantly put me down and encouraged me not 2 accept responsibility. One of the most important things that happened was that I refused 2 believe in "EVIL", internally or externally. Looking back this was 2 weird because whether u convince urself that EVIL is not part of u, or that u, personally, could NEVER b an evil person, or not, it still potentially exists in the socio-political realm, religious or spiritual realm and, 2 some degree, it's potential exists in individuals outside ur own little world.

I think that last sentence is the most important one, especially when we look at Thomas Covenant. And now we have 2 b extremely careful with all this psycho-babble about Foul being TC, etc...On the other hand the "Devil made me do it!" excuse doesn't hold water either. TC is outcast, completely alone, stuck inside his own head and Foul means 2 keep him that way. In that way Foul is a disease--but, in a way, Foul is more like alcoholism or drug addiction: "Stay in ur head!", "It's all about me", "Problem? I don't have a problem!", anger replacing fear, paranoia, can't let go of the past, can't grow up, not accepting responsibility, remain in statis. Where does this all lead? Suicide? Madness? TC must keep moving in order 2 survive--in that way doesn't Foul remind u of a mad scientist, or worse: a behavioral psychologist?

When I think about TC I sometimes hear The Smashing Pumpkins, "Despite all my rage I am still a rat in a cage..."It's almost as if Lord Foul is a Pavlov or a Skinner making TC ring bells and run through a maze after pre-ordained cheese. Survive or die--conditioned response. Like the psychologist Foul is seldom seen except at the end of both Chrons (experiments). Foul is more of a concept, a monkey on TC's back, an obsession--in this way Foul much more "EVIL" than if he is personified. Foul becomes an obsession and an addiction-in that way he is true "Evil", like "Faith" he can b felt, but not touched. The way Foul gets in2 TC's head and how his manipulations corrupt the beauty of the Land is abominable and an outright affront, 2 me.

Foul's danger is more internal, 2 me, as compared to the more "external" dangers of Sauron--i.e. TC is "pushed" whereas Frodo is "pulled". I'll stop 4 now and let y'all mull on this and let the Tolkien scholars chop me in2 little pieces. Mayb it's just the "psycho-drama" that really freaks me out--but in this way Foul really is the nastiest fantasy bad-guy I've ever come across. I have tons of other thoughts on the matter but ur critique and thought will allow me 2 congeal them more succinctly...

I'll leave u with 1 of the most important factors in this arguement, or rambling, 2 consider. If we're talking about evil and Foul running TC around, being an addiction, and the internal agitator (not being TC himself!!) then how and y is Kayseryn of Gyre so important 2 the nexus of this discussion?
That's a subject I'll explore next--but I can't do it w/out ur thoughts!

Also think on this--if this really is an addiction problem--what does the addiction cause the addictee 2 crave? personal destruction, power, more of the same? TC is VERY good at fighting these things, or @least keeping himself ignorant of these things--what is the real high? Connection 2 the Land, 2 our world--health? Love? Solving his own paradox? What!!!???

If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't.
Lyall Watson
<i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 11/28/02 3:54:32 pm
</i>

How were Kasryen and Lf related? Was there some kind of corespondence between the two? Was Kasreyn SENT to Bhraithairealm??

I love the comment by Danlo about Frodo being pulled and Covenant pushed. Its true; Sauron wanted Frodo, literally. Foul wanted Covenant to DO something for HIM. Never did He make two things the same; never did He utter one word twice. After earths, not better earths but beasts; after beasts not better beasts, but spirits. After a falling, not a recovery, but a new creation, not a third but the mode of change itself is changed forever. Blessed be He!<i></i>

No there is NO relationship! I just asked u 2 think on y Kayseryn was so important--What's VERY valuable about Kayseryn is that he is evil independant of all Foul's machinations. Now think some more on that and I'll b back with the real analysis in Part 2.
If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't.
Lyall Watson
<i></i>

wow that was quite an interesting summation danlo!!

I am not sure I get it all without another re-read .. there's a lot of stuff there to digest .. but I wanted to comment verily!

It was very impressive and an insight into impact of the chrons on you as an individual. I think you expressed some uncannily perceptive concepts .. and drew some amazing parrallels here.

And you are probably wondering which parrallels in particular but I think I need to re-read again .. there was just so much in that synopsis of yours.

I dont know that the TC-LF relationship is an addiction .. or an addictive thing .. Can you explain what you mean by this?

Do you see TC as being addicted to despair?? but he was chosen because he was accustomed to despair and had not let it become a habit or something the Creator explained to TC .. this quality distinguishes TC from the run of the mill human .. in the choice stakes .. from the Creator's pov.

But mayhap he is addicted to mysery?? though I dont see TC in these terms .. TC starts out like any 'addictee' maybe .. being a victim .. and ultimately becomes the master of his own destiny.

- he takes the requisite control and acts in the face of his own personal despair .. to empower himself. In LFB .. he is the victim .. a sad and woeful victim ..

LF thinks because of this he can manipulate TC easily -

ok I too now need to do some more thinking on the matter .. do explain more of your pov please!

health and healing<i></i>

Truly, in a way, TC is addicted 2 despair. Given his absolutely horrible situation in our life he must either fight or master despair. Somehow in a "dream" he is summoned, in part, by despair and it confronts him face 2 face. Foul is leprosy 2 the Land, madness in TC's head and a monkey on his back. Alot 2 contend with! The solution 2 the "dream" isn't the Staff of Law, it's dropping all subconcious defenses and letting it master u if u don't master it 1st. Despair, that is...

Mayb Foul isn't TC, but we may have missed the newer Abnormal Psychology analysis. Finally these guys r sloooowly, very slooowly beginning 2 look at, what we in the U.S. refer 2 as, Eastern Medicine, study of the Chi and the "Mind/Body" connection. If u're familiar w/this, then u probably kno what I'm leading up 2. If not, given any possible phenomenon by which we access Foul, Foul is leprosy 2 the Land and the Land represents TC's body. So u can c the formula: Foul must really attack the Land in order 2 attempt 2 trigger signs of leprosy and doubt. As the body is attacked-thus is the mind, and vice versa...

Foul's not only out 2 destroy the Land but Covenant as well. Foul's body are his machinations, Ravers, kresh, ur-viles in tune with the Illearth Stone but not the Staff of Law. 2 some degree Foul has brainwashed TC in2 forgetting that his body is analagous the Land. Almost as if there may exist a cure 4 leprosy if one is in prefect harmony w/EarthpowerQuote:...there is power graven in every rock... . Therefore LF does eveything and anything 2 disrupt any possible harmony.

Get the harmonies running in every rock, every tree, every cell in ur body until the light of hope can make each cell shine. Then wild magic, perhaps, becomes the Faith that binds the health of the cells and allows the body 2 recover.
Covenant tends 2 think w/ his head and not his heart. A very dangerous place 4 an alcoholic or an addict 2 b. Foul is like alcohol, or a heavy drug, cunning, baffling, powerful! So TC must really b hitting his bottom! What do u get when fall past depair? Y Foul of course, yuk!

In that way Foul bcomes TC's disease-the only difference is that TC didn't ask 4 leprosy in the 1st place. If u look at it that way INDEED TC is really a hero of the most epic proportions--and many Chronicle critics--can't really c this.

In a very strange way I almost c Kayseryn of the Gyre as an equal 2 Covenant's position. He's smart, but he 2 thinks w/his head, he has his own addiction and disease: his coryell. THE most intense thing about Kayseryn is that he, and the coryell, combine 2 form a faucet of evil apart from Foul's body of influence. If I remember correctly the Raver(s) came very close 2 touching the new shores, but never made it ashore...When Kayseryn ties TC 2 the chair and makes him shut up and listen 4 once in his fool life it become a SERIOUS wake up call 4 Covenant! Look evil exists apart from in YOUR head in this dream!! LOOK U IDIOT!!! This is NOT a dream, this proves it!!!

Do u I like it here? Isn't it obvious I've made MY own deal w/the devil? U're not alone pal..
If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't.
Lyall Watson
<i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 11/12/02 10:10:03 am
</i>

I kinda get where ur going with the addiction thing but I will need to ponder on this more to 1. understand more what you are getting at .. and 2. know more about what I think about this hypothesis ..,

very interesting however .. truly food for thought health and healing<i></i>

Giving back something broken is just plain mean. I also hope that LF and TC are NOT the same. Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
****Tavern Wench of DOGMA, the Defenders of George Martin's Art****<i></i>