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 Post subject: Buffy the vampire slayer
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:40 pm 
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Ok, I am a big Buffy fan, this post will take two parts

Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Using Danlo’s suggestion, let’s start a thread concerning this recently completed TV series. Starting on March 13, 1997 and having it’s concluding episode on May 20, 2003, Buffy Summers (Sarah Michelle Gellar), A.K.A. the Chosen One, the Slayer protected the world from demons, staked vampires, foiled more than a few human foes, went through high school, survived the death of her mother, her own death (twice), was given the responsibility to protect and keep safe a supernatural entity that could potentially end reality as known, fell in love with two vampires herself, and a few other adventures. The series lasted seven seasons and produced 144 episodes of some of the best television offered. Joss Whedon, creator of the series and its spin off Angel, said his purpose in creating this series was a satire of the cheesy horror movies where the cute blonde girl is one of the first victims of some unspeakable ghoul. IOW, this character goes down the ominously darkened alley or enters the dark mansion and screams when confronted by the monster she is then either beheaded or eviscerated, and Joss said just once I would like to see the blonde kick the monster’s butt. Joss has said, too, that BtVS was created to be a series that would be an icon, capture people’s imaginations, and would have folks talking about it as more than just idle water cooler chit chat, that would have spin-off novels, comics and other ancillary products for it.

OK, ancillary products considering episode guides. Start with the Official Watchers guides volumes one and two, loaded with lots of extras including cast and staff interviews, inside bits about the episodes that never were seen, but they only cover through the end of season four. The girl’s got bite, by Kathleen Tracy, does not include the last dozen or so episodes; therefore, does not have all of season seven (includes through season seven episode nine). Bite me, by Nikki Stafford, ends with season six, does not include any of season seven, but does include Angel through season 3. Dusted by Lars Pearson, Christa Dickson and Lawrence Miles, includes through the series finale. Slayer by Keith Topping, an episode guide that include through the end of season six. Angel the case files, official guide to Angel, loaded with extras and only covers through season 2 of Angel.

Books about the series. There have been a few books that have pondered and discussed some of the more substantial issues the series deals with. Reading the vampire slayer, edited by Roz Kaveney, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and philosophy, edited by James South, Seven seasons of Buffy edited by Glenn Yeffeth, Fighting the forces, edited by James Lavery and Rhonda Wilcox, are all books of critical essays by academics or science fiction and fantasy authors considering the series.

Tie in novels come in two varieties, there are those that novelize the series episodes and others that take the Slayers and her friends on new adventures. And there are tie in comic books, which are almost always new adventures.

OK, dear readers you all are saying now, but the series is over, how can see the episodes. Well, in the States the cable FX network runs reruns twice per day in two hour time slots once in the morning and again in the afternoon. Also, Fox network runs episode reruns on Saturdays and Sundays, local times vary. DVDs, in the States, all Buffy seasons through season five are out in DVD sets, and I think in the rest of the world all seven seasons are released.

Ok, so with this post let's talk Buffy and Angel. Otherwise known as the Buffyverse. I can not be the only Buffy fan on the Hangar.


taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i>Edited by: taraswizard at: 1/25/04 8:55 pm
</i>


Last edited by taraswizard on Tue May 15, 2007 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Buffy the vampire slayer
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:59 pm 
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Ok, this is the second part of the post. And sorry the last post was sorta long.

Lets kick off discussion on what you think might be the five best episodes of Buffy are? By picking the five best, you have to really put on your critical thinking caps. And I will start with my picks. And I am not going to to give much comments why, just a short explanation of which episodes they are.

1) Hush. The episode where Sunnydale residents are robbed of their voices. First episode with Amber Benson.

2) Once More With Feeling. The musical episode

3) The Gift. Buffy takes a leap off a tower to save the world. A tower built by the minions of Hell God that will allow her to return to her own dimension. Final episode season 5.

4) Graduation Day. Buffy and the Scoobies graduate from High School with a literal bang. Best season Finale.

5) Dopplegangland. A character from an alternate dimension of Sunnydale, is revealed.

Comments your own picks, these are just my opinions. YMMV
taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i>Edited by: taraswizard at: 1/25/04 8:58 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Buffy the vampire slayer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:43 am 
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Wow! I've actually quoted Roz Kaveney's criticism a few times here on the Hangar, and respect her work. Thanks so much for starting this thread that is so dear 2 your heart taras! *****
Before, you are wise; after, you are wise. In between you are otherwise.
Fravashi saying (from the formularies of Osho the Fool) <i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 8/22/06 8:37 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Buffy the vampire slayer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:55 pm 
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over a week ago I wrote Quote:Ok, so with this post let's talk Buffy and Angel. Otherwise known as the Buffyverse. I can not be the only Buffy fan on the Hangar. Maybe I am the only Buffy fan here on the hangar. Maybe you might want to discuss why you do not think the shows, BtVS or Angel the Series, are very good at all. YMMV. and they are not everyones cuppa tea. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i>Edited by: taraswizard at: 2/4/04 9:57 am
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 Post subject: Re: BtVS but OT Roz Kaveny
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:05 pm 
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Danlo, Roz Kaveney is herself an interesting individual, with even an interesting personal history since she is a transgendered person. Feel free to check out her personal website glamourousrags.dymphna.net/author.html and her weblog, follow the link, always has some interesting tidbits. For example, her weblog documents her pereferal contact with Bill Clinton, since she was in University when he was on his scholarship to Oxford, and they knew many of the same people at the time.

BTW, maybe some of this belongs in Duchess's thread. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Buffy the vampire slayer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:34 pm 
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As many of you have heard WB network announced in mid February that the current season (season 5) of Angel would be it last. Since that time there have various fan actions to try and get either WB to revoke its decision or another network to pick up this quality series. These actions have included ads put in the Hollywood Reporter and Daily Variety, postcard writing campaigns, E-mail campaigns, a billboard truck that has prowled the streets of Hollywood for several weeks.

Well, one of the targets of the E-mail campaigns have been the morning drive time radio hosts in Southern California on KROQ-FM, known as Kevin and the Bean (these two guys AFAIK have hit the So. Cal. airwaves since I moved from that area so I do not know what their usual schtick might be). Well, these two have commented on the air about receiving these E-mails. And then, this last Friday it seems Joss Whedon (Angel's executive producer, writer and director of many episodes) called their show. I got a partial transcript of the call from an E-mail list I am on. During the call, the ads in Reporter and Variety, a fan rally held on Wednesday, and post card campaigns are mentioned. Quote:Thanks to Jana, (Ripper), at Spoiler-Crypt:
groups.yahoo.com/group/spoiler-crypt]


Exclusive: transcript of Kevin and Bean interview with Joss Whedon (4/2/2004)


Reposting with Permission
All credit for the transcription goes to -anige- and to Elizabeth B for recording

So my friend Elizabeth was listening to KROQ this morning sometime between 7 and 7:30 AM, and she heard something along the lines of "damn 'Angel' fans spamming us" and "we have Joss Whedon on the
phone right now" and scrambled to record it. Thanks SO MUCH to my friend Elizabeth Barrera, who was willing to sacrifice her Smashing Pumpkins tape for the cause. Those of you who were at the rally might remember her.

So, here's what was actually recorded, or what I could hear and transcribe, anyway. Obviously, no guarantees. Punctuation is approximate. I *think* the chick in the background is Lisa, but I'm not positive. There's stuff I couldn't hear, and laughter, and people talk over each other, and sometimes I couldn't tell who was speaking, but I did the best I could. And I cut short my Friday night to do it!

Enjoy!

Bean: ...it is unbelievable! But we'd like --

Joss: I told them to target you guys specifically.

Kevin: Like we have any say over it! Right! We'd like to say, Joss, it's obvious that your fans still want it, why are you quitting?

Joss: Um, I'm not quitting, I'm being fired.

Kevin: Oh, oh, that's right, I forgot.

Bean: Oh, way to walk away from it and break everyone's heart, Joss, nice work!

Joss: Yeah, yeah.

Kevin: Tell us all about, uh, about "Angel." We really -- Bean is not exaggerating, we have been inundated with people who are dying to save this show from all over the world.

Joss: You know, um, unfortunately, none of them seem to work for networks. It's odd.

Kevin: Yeah, unfortunately.

Joss: Um, you know, I -- I was shocked as hell when we got cancelled.

Kevin: You were.

Joss: Um, I thought, uh, the show -- I know the show was doing better than it's done before, I know people were receiving it well, we thought we were hitting our stride hugely, it's been a great year, we've been having so much fun, and it sort of came out of the
blue.

Kevin: So, so, ratings-wise, there were no big red flags going off, you were fine.

Joss: No, no, none.

Kevin: Huh.

Joss: But, uh, you know, the WB I think is just looking to shake up its image, and do some stuff that's new, and we've been on for five years, and so we didn't just quite make the cut with them.

Kevin: Wow.

Joss: And it's that simple, it's, it's, it's dollars and cents.

Kevin: What can you --

Joss: Well, not cents so much as dollars.

Kevin: Dollars, right. Yeah, exactly, they're willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on the pennies, but not so much on the dollars. Uh, before we, uh, before we talk about what is likely to happen, what can y -- tell folks what the saving -- how savingangel.org got started, if you know, and some of the things
that they've been doing in support of how much they love your show.

Joss: Well, I do know -- I don't know how exactly they got started -- I do know that one of the things they did, uh, uh, besides, uh, hiring a truck with a billboard to drive around LA and taking out ads in "The Hollywood Reporter" and "Variety", which is not cheap --

Kevin: Right.

Joss: -- they did organize a rally that happened, uh, on Wednesday, outside the actual WB, um, uh, to make a -- a big ruckus in front of the actual executives.

Kevin: That's gotta really make you feel good --

Joss: Gotta tell you, it does.

Kevin: -- about a product that you've worked so hard on.

Joss: It does. Because, uh, I was really heartbroken when they, when they cancelled the show. We still have something to air, which, uh, we're working on now. We're about to start shooting the -- the very
last episode.

Kevin: Right.

Joss: It's been really sort of sad, over in the offices, and knowing that there are so many people who are sharing that with us? Is pretty cool.

Kevin: You know, uh, w -- as you know, we've been putting in the request for the last couple of weeks to have you on because we really did want to talk about this, and raise awareness of it, and we were always told by your people, "Hey, he's furiously typing this
final episode of 'Angel'", in your mind, did you write it as the last episode of "Angel", or did you leave some room open for it to come back?

Joss: Well, I always do both. When I come to the end of a season, and this started from the very beginning of "Buffy", um, I always write it to give complete closure and really cap everything I tried
to say about the series, but leave enough stuff open that, should there be another season, um, there's plenty to do.

Kevin: Just because it's always up in the air, no matter --

Joss: Yeah.

Kevin: -- no matter what you're doing?

Joss: Yeah, the reaper always loometh.

Kevin: That sounds like it ought to be the name of the episode, by the way. Doesn't that sound like an "Angel" title?

Joss: No, the name of the episode is, "Not Fade Away."

Kevin: "Not Fade Away."

Lisa: Oh. Well, that's good too.

Kevin: Interesting.

Bean: Nice.

Kevin: You know, it used to be in the old days, 99.9% of the time, when a show was cancelled, that was it, there was no fighting, there was no talking, it was outta here. Nowadays, it seems like there are
more and more examples of shows that are cancelled by one network, and then they get picked up by somebody else, maybe they go to cable, uh --

Bean: Uh-huh.

Kevin: Obviously, the story -- the case of the -- yeah, one of our favorite shows, "The Family Guy" that was cancelled --

Joss: Right.

Kevin: -- and then now it's being brought back because of the DVD sales. What are the various options available to you, and what do you think is gonna happen, Joss?

Joss: Well, I'm not sure what's gonna happen. There's been some talk about the idea of doing, um, TV movies or miniseries, um, uh, on a limited basis --

Kevin: Uh-huh.

Joss: Um, we haven't really, sort of, explored that yet, we're just trying to get this season through the ground. But, um, uh, you know, in the case of "Buffy", it did go to another network, in the case
of "Firefly", um, you know, I've managed to turn it into a film, um -
-

Kevin: I love that about you, Joss. Here is what happens: "Firefly" comes on the air, and it just, for s -- for whatever reasons, I think it was on a bad night, wasn't it, uh --

Lisa: Yeah.

Bean: It was Friday nights, I remember.

Kevin: Friday nights, it just --

Joss: Possibly a bad network!

Kevin: -- it didn't catch on. And, uh, but Joss says, "You know what? I'm gonna make it into a movie anyway, 'cause I like it, and it's got some stuff that people haven't seen yet." So I love that about you.

Joss: Oh, thanks. It wasn't easy, but, uh, it should be fun.

Bean: All right.

Kevin: So you could take "Angel" to another network, right?

Joss: You know, um, it's a little bit different. "Buffy" was such a cultural phenomenon, that it -- and, and the war about it was -- got such press, that that was kind of a no-brainer for UPN. "Angel" is
in a different situation. We have always flown a little bit more under the radar. Um, and, uh, I think we -- it's gonna be very difficult. I don't see it happening. I don't see another network happening for us.

Kevin: Hmm.

Bean: Wow.

Kevin: Note to UPN: you'd be lucky to have it.

Bean: Yeah, no kidding.

Kevin: Uh, you know the --

Joss: I didn't say that!

Kevin: -- the, uh --

Joss: I went near it, but I didn't say it!

Kevin: The critics, that I, uh, that I read a lot in "Entertainment Weekly" or in "USA Today" -- they've been extremely supportive of "Angel". It's not just the fans, I mean, you get a lot of g -- a lot of good critical press on the show too.

Joss: You know, I -- I didn't expect it to happen after "Buffy". I expected the big backlash to start, but, uh, "Angel" kind of has its own vibe, and, and critics have responded to it too. I mean, everything about it is working just great, and these episodes that we have coming up, I'm as proud of as anything we've done on it.
Everything is just perfect except for the fact that we're dead.

Kevin: All right, so, let me see if I can recap, then. Critics, check. Ratings, check. Um, success, check. But it's dead.

Joss: Yeah.

Kevin: This is odd. Um, what --

Lisa: I don't know what need to do nowadays to keep a show on!

Kevin: Did they -- did they give you a reason?

Joss: There were reasons. They had to do with repeatability, and, and, and in terms of, uh, ad revenues and the repeats, and, and again about, you know, "Well, we have to bring in new shows, we have to have more reality shows" -- yes, reality shows are in fact killing the landscape of television --

Kevin: Oh, no.

Joss: -- which I didn't think they'd do --

Kevin: Wow.

Joss: -- and, um, you know, just, uh, just no place for -- for an -- an old codger like Angel. He's like, two hundred and fifty, and that's not their demographic.

Kevin: You know, uh, we're talking to Joss Whedon here for just this morning about his show "Angel" that is gonna be leaving us, I guess, in May, will be the last episode, right?

Joss: Uh, that's right.

Kevin: May, right. And, uh, you do bring up a good point that we hadn't touched on, and that is... And this happens a lot, when you're dealing with entertainment, whether you're talking about
music or TV or movies, is that you -- it touches you, because it's art, but on the other side of it, there are bean keepers, and, and, and they have to make a profit, and there are a lot of shows that end up going away, you know, because it just costs too much money to make. It's not profitable anymore. It's not that the show is -- isn't good, it's just that they can't justify it in the bottom line anymore, and --

Joss: Although --

Kevin: -- sometimes it sounds like that's what you get up against.

Joss: We did take a huge budget cut this year, actually cost less this year than it did last year.

Kevin: And you said, "Uh, okay, well, we would rather not, but we can make it work?"

Joss: We made it work.

Kevin: Wow.

Joss: For a season. Wasn't easy.

Kevin: Okay --

Joss: We spent a lot of time in that lobby.

Kevin: Okay, here's the -- here's the real question, then, Joss. Is there anything anyone can do to help you at this point, or is it just in the hands of -- of the suits?

Joss: You know, I think all the noise that's been made by the fans, um, does help. Because, um, you know, we -- we're talking about different venues for not just "Angel", but the Buffy -- Buffyverse in general.

Kevin: Right.

Joss: You know. Spinoffs, or, if -- TV movies, or whatever it is, uh, the more interest that's shown, um, whether or not the show itself as it is now gets to come back, um, that registers -- that registers with people, you know.

Kevin: Now, Bean and I are not, uh, uh, the people who can bring it back, unfortunately --

Joss: What?

Kevin: -- if we were, we would --

Lisa: Right.

Joss: Oh --

Kevin: So -- so, Joss who --

Joss: Oh, I've misdirected my fans.

Kevin: Who should they -- who should they write to?

Joss: Um, you know, I believe, uh, Fox Studios, who produces it, um, and, uh, you know, they should just keep writing to everybody. The more, you know -- the WB, the other networks -- the more the awareness of it is out there, um, the more, you know, it has a chance at -- at finding some kind of life.

Kevin: Oh, I see.

Joss: Even though I honestly don't think it's gonna come back in its present incarnation as the "Angel" series, um, you know, I think there's a lot more to say about the Buffyverse in general.

Bean: So people could even write to, say, ABC, and say "Hey, by the way, they're taking 'Angel' off, I sure would watch ABC if you were to pick it up."

Joss: If people have the time --

Kevin: Wow.

Joss: -- they could write to everybody.

Bean: Except for -- except for Kevin and Bean.

Joss: No, mostly Kevin and Bean.

Kevin: Oh, no. There's gonna be --

Joss: Listen to the sound of my voice. Kevin and Bean are the power behind the WB.

Kevin: We just have no control! But we have -- but we have no control!

Joss: They are the power.

Kevin: Oh, Joss.

Joss: Joe Levin, he puts on a cowl, he lights a candle, and he prays to them.

Bean: Joss, it's gotta be so crazy for you to wake up in a world where "Yes, Dear" is on the air every week and you're having trouble keeping "Angel" going.

Joss: Um, you know, uh, you know, uh, y-- did you know who's president?

Bean: Yeah.

Joss: World's crazy, you know.

Kevin: Yeah, the world is definitely crazy. Well, uh, we're very grateful that you, uh -- that you managed to get on the air and talk to us about this. This has -- this is something that we have been talking about, uh, without you, the past couple of weeks because
we're certainly aware of the groundswell, and I -- man, I hate to see a show that people love -- not -- I mean, there are so few shows that you can get passionate about, if you find something great, there's gotta be a way to make it work so the fans can be happy I --

Joss: Yes.

Kevin: I really believe that. And I -- And I think you're giving some good advice, to just to keep -- keep making noise! You know, the old squeaky wheel, like they say.

Joss: Yup.

Kevin: All right.

Joss: 'Cause, uh, we'll -- we'll figure out something. It's -- our stories aren't told yet --

Bean: There you go.

Joss: -- not quite yet.

Bean: There's so much more to be told.

Lisa: Yes.

Joss: Yup.

Kevin: Joss Whedon, thanks a lot.

Joss: Thank you, guys.

Kevin: Bye now.

Bean: Bye.

Joss: Bye bye.

Just something interesting: they cut to commercial right after this, and there was a traffic report, and then they had, "Hey, this is Sarah Michelle Gellar, and you're listening to Kevin and Bean on the world-famous KROQ." I will continue, for me this entire situation has been espcially crushing, since I only became interested in SF and F again in a more serious way because of Angel and Buffy.

Sorry this post is so long.
taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i>Edited by: taraswizard at: 4/4/04 5:41 am
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 Post subject: What do you know about Nancy Holder?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:36 pm 
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Yesterday, at Bubonicon I listened to a panel of authors discussing How a Novel or Series Ends. The panel consisted of S. M. Stirling, Sage Walker, Melinda Snodgrass (STNG), Stephen R. Donaldson and Nancy Holder. Holder said some very interesting things about different ways to write Buffy novels (like, for instance, going back to something that takes place between episodes 17 & 18); classic (teenage 'valley girl-esque"), dark, or comedic. Apparently she's written both Buffy and Angel based 'tie-ins' here's her blurb-

Quote:USA-Today bestselling author, has sold 78 books and over 200 short stories, essays and articles. She has written more projects in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel universe than any other author. A four time recipient of the Bram Stoker Award...etc...

Is she any good? Or is she a gun for hire, as it were? Is she worthy of a thread somewhere here or in the Horror forum? Have you ever met her, read her? Anyone else know about her.

btw she told SRD that he had undisputed class for being a Buffy fan! *****
Before, you are wise; after, you are wise. In between you are otherwise.
Fravashi saying (from the formularies of Osho the Fool) <i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 8/22/06 8:29 pm
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 Post subject: Re: What do you know about Nancy Holder?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:29 am 
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Danlo wrote Quote:Is she any good? Or is she a gun for hire, as it were? Is she worthy of a thread somewhere here or in the Horror forum? Have you ever met her, read her? Anyone else know about her.

btw she told SRD that he had undisputed class for being a Buffy fan! IMO, she is very good; FWIW, Holder is up there with Matthew Stover, KRA DeCandido, and Peter David as one of the better known tie-in writers there is. She lives in the San Diego area and has conducted writer's workshops in Hawaii many times. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
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W/T forever, always
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 Post subject: Re: What do you know about Nancy Holder?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:35 am 
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Very cool--will have to look at her stuff! (good answer your peers are watching-ok NOW join the frickin' Hangar people!!! ) *****
Before, you are wise; after, you are wise. In between you are otherwise.
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 Post subject: Re: What do you know about Nancy Holder?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:08 pm 
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Danlo wrote Quote:(good answer your peers are watching-ok NOW join the frickin' Hangar people "The who, whatting, how with the huh? Am I supposed to understand your last message? taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Buffy fans Chicago
my livej<i>Edited by: taraswizard at: 8/23/06 9:14 am
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 Post subject: Re: Buffy the vampire slayer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:26 pm 
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Nancy holders website is the place you can find out more about her projects. Several of her BtVS projects were cowritten with Christopher Golden. IIRC, she likes to tell this story that in the spring of 1977 as the first season of BtVS finished up, she got a call from a publisher (not Simon and Schuster, the house that got the Buffyverse contract and continues to put out Buffy novels) asking if she'd be interested in doing some tie-in contracts for an newly debuted TV series, even though, they never told her the name she knew they were talking about BtVS. Right after they finished talking to her, she called Chris on the east coast and she told him that she'd given his name to the same publisher, cause she knew they both were already fans of the newly debuted series. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
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 Post subject: Re: Buffy the vampire slayer
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:29 pm 
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btw she told SRD that he had undisputed class for being a Buffy fan! *****
Before, you are wise; after, you are wise. In between you are otherwise.
Fravashi saying (from the formularies of Osho the Fool) <i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 8/22/06 8:29 pm
</i>


Did not know SRD was a Buffy fan. Awesome.

It is hard to pick a favorite episode, or even character. I think they are all great.

FYI, Netflix has all the Buffy and Angel (Firefly and Dollhouse) episodes via streaming as of 8/27/11. There is no telling how long they will stay in the streaming library.

I can't wait until 9/13 to see Gellar in Ringer.


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