There is so much nuttiness out there right now over this issue, I thought I would post this link:
Explains some of the basic issues, debunks some of the crazier claims, and uses plain everday English rather than legalese.
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| US universal health care debate https://ahirashangar.ihugny.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3100 |
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| Author: | Duchess of Malfi [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | US universal health care debate |
There is so much nuttiness out there right now over this issue, I thought I would post this link: Explains some of the basic issues, debunks some of the crazier claims, and uses plain everday English rather than legalese.
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| Author: | Moonwatcher [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
I really haven't paid as much attention to health care issues as I probably should, whether in Canada or the US. I've heard it said that health care reform is the single most important thing that will "define" the Obama presidency as either a success or a failure. (I might be wrong, but wasn't that the case with Clinton's presidency, too?) I guess it's understandable how hard it is to enact any serious reform in this area. People are comfortable with the status quo (or at least those who are benefiting from the current system), so they don't see a reason to mess with things. I imagine the American health care system is quite an imponderable, nearly immovable beast nowadays. Is that a fair thing to say? Granted, maybe it's a Sisyphean task to overhaul any country's health care system today. But is it particularly hard in the US because of all the powerful lobby groups there? |
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| Author: | Avatar [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
Yeah, I think you're right. Personally, I'm in favour of universal health care, and damn the deficit or whatever. Seems to me that's one of the biggest reasons people don't want it. To me, the cost is worth covering the people who need it. So far, the only legitimate complaint I've really heard about it is that the proposed plan won't actually cover everybody, so in that case, I'd ask what the point is then. People are getting so worked up about it, they're destroying the chances of a compromise, or so it looks to me. --A |
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| Author: | Duchess of Malfi [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
To me the thing is that we are already paying (in one way or another) for all of the people with no insurance coverage. Street person has a siezure on the middle of a busy sidewalk and someoen calls 911 for help? Yep, tax payers pay for the EMS to go help him and his resulting emergency room care. Community hospital and a patient cannot pay his or her bills? Yep. Tax payers will end up with the tab. Illegal immigrant ends up in the ER (where it is illegal for he doctors to turn someone away who needs care)? Yep. Everyone else who uses that hospital, whether public or private, will pay for the bill when the hospital bills more money to those who can pay their bills to cover that loss. When the hospitals bill more money to those who can pay that usually means their insurance companies. And yey - my insurance goes up every damned year - as do my prescription and office visit co-pays. Everyone who uses medicaid, medicare, and the VA system has their care directly paid for by the taxpayers, but the taxpayers end up paying for all of the other people in the examples I cited as well. Why not just make these hidden expenses open and above board and let us see on our paycheck stubs how much we are actually paying for all of the uninsured people? That is the elephant in the room no one talks about in these debates - we are already paying for all of the uninsured patients, whether directly or indirectly. |
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| Author: | taraswizard [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
| Author: | Duchess of Malfi [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
No, it is absolutely true, and not harsh at all. The insurance people want to deny as many claims as they can. It is in their own best interests to do so! |
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| Author: | Moonwatcher [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
My bad...I should've been more careful with my words. I meant that the ones who are comfortable with the current system are those profiting from it. (Such as the insurance companies, right?) I think the Medicare system we have in Canada is overall fair, though I've had little direct experience with it, since I rarely have occasion to make use of such services. It just puzzles me why some in the US have such disdain - even hostility - for the Canadian system. Is it perfect? Of course not. But I know it makes for good, attention-grabbing politics for opponents of universal health care to hold up any flaw as proof that it doesn't work. |
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| Author: | aliantha [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
I have been staying out of the Tank precisely because of this issue. Every time I read the misinformation and misdirection that some folks are posting there, my blood pressure starts to go up. (I admit that I dropped a bomb in there yesterday and ran. Sorry, Av. I'm sure my post has been eviscerated by now; I'm too chicken to go back and see what's left of it....) The problem in the US is that as soon as you even breathe the mere suggestion that taxpayers should fund health care, the right starts screaming about those damn Socialists who are gonna rip apart the fabric of this great nation, etc.  Jeebus.I think a single-payer system is the only way to meaningfully reform American health care. I am starting to believe that it's unethical for anybody to use the delivery of health care as a means of making money. That's not to say that doctors/nurses/etc. should work for free! What I mean is that the system ought to be run, if not by the government, then as a nonprofit. Otherwise people get greedy, and you end up with the situation we have in the US right now: insurance companies maximizing their profits by developing products that will cost consumers more in premiums but will cover less and less -- all so that investors can make more money. It really is shameful. |
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| Author: | Moonwatcher [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
I suppose the hardliners will always get attention because they shout the loudest or sling the most mud around. But how do the majority of Americans feel about Obama's reform plan? Does he have their support? I thought one of the reasons - maybe the big reason - why Obama was elected was because people wanted a change from the ugly, hardline politics of previous years. |
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| Author: | Avatar [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
| Author: | Duchess of Malfi [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
| Author: | aliantha [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
| Author: | Duchess of Malfi [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
Beware of walking into the Dark Side, Ali. Resist the temptation. 
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| Author: | Moonwatcher [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
| Author: | Avatar [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: US universal health care debate |
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