Ahira's Hangar

Well, I have heard an awful lot of good things about this writer and have finally begun reading the first book in his Prince of Nothing trilogy, called The Darkness That Comes Before.

The opening prologue was certainly gripping, and Kelhus shows great promise of being a very interesting character, though perhaps not a particularly sympathetic one.

I am now bogged down a bit, as the author just begins showing us how interesting Kelhus might be, then abruptly changes locations and cast of characters to what looks like a Prophet-led religious war. So far this part has not caught my fancy, though I will patiently wait until he ties it back into Kelhus and his story line.

Bakker certainly shows great promise as a writer. He has a very nice way with words.

If anyone wants to chime in, please feel free. I only ask that you stay away from massive spoilers, as I am not even to the midpoint of the first book yet. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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First I love this series, and in my review (tomorrow) of the final books in the series I'm going to yap about this being the best comoleted epic fantasy sequence ever. That said, this teneds to be a 'love or hate' sequence

Quote:The opening prologue was certainly gripping, and Kelhus shows great promise of being a very interesting character, though perhaps not a particularly sympathetic one.

I would get used to that There is no form of sentiment in this series.

Quote:I am now bogged down a bit, as the author just begins showing us how interesting Kelhus might be, then abruptly changes locations and cast of characters to what looks like a Prophet-led religious war. So far this part has not caught my fancy, though I will patiently wait until he ties it back into Kelhus and his story line.


Kellhus is absent from a great portion of the middle of this book. To think of Kelhuss as the central figure in the series is apt, to think of him as being the character that necessarily gets more time than all the other character is not. Aka, Esme, Cnair, as well as others get a lot of time, although there thoughts are often on Kelhuss. This is also a common complaint, I would wait as for me the secondary characters really started to grow on me (especially Cnaiur). One of the few elements of this book that I didn't enjoy is that it does play the role - as many first epic fantasy books do - as a 'set-up' novel. The Warrior Prophet (the second book) brings the plot into more of a seamless track.

I felt this was a stunning, powerful series, but am inclined to agree it doesn't suit everybody. To me it draws from Herbert and Wolfe in a narrative style that is unique to Bakker. Kellus is only behind Tyrion has my favorite charatcer in epic fantasy history!

I would alow the other characters to earn your interest, and see what you feel after Book I, which I think is by far the weakest book in the trilogy.





The Bodhisattva

Fantasybookspot.com

My interview this week: Kelly Link
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I will keep in mind that Kelhus will be in the background/not around for awhile in this part of the book. Hopefully some of the characters introduced in this section will become a bit more interesting...Bakker has already shown himself to be talented enough for me to stick it out until they do.

I guess I was just a bit surprised as the Kelhus storyline was really getting to be very interesting, and that character was showing signs of being very intriguiing, and the author suddenly and abruptly changed gears, locations, plots, and characters on me.

From what I've read so far, it's definately worth sticking out, though. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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Quote:I guess I was just a bit surprised as the Kelhus storyline was really getting to be very interesting, and that character was showing signs of being very intriguiing, and the author suddenly and abruptly changed gears, locations, plots, and characters on me.

Your observation is definitely true, so it came down to me having to decide whether it was an incompetent choice of cutting away or, was it a intentional, and eventually an effective narrative tool.

I think as you go on you will find that each character (all compeltely different, and really common and fantasy traditional characters brought to life ie Barabaein, Wizard, Harlot, Emperor, general,) etc all prove to be a fascianting and different perspective of Kellhus, even when they agree, and the fact that he essentially becomes the center of all their universes. The Bodhisattva

Fantasybookspot.com

My interview this week: Kelly Link
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The abrupt changes in settings, plots, and characters must just be Bakker's writing style. I was just getting interested in the second setting and starting to be interested in the character Esmi when he changed everything again.

Luckily I am a long term Martin fan, so this is not as jarring as it might have been. Bakker just changes everything after a chunk of a book rather than with each chapter. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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One more day, one more day, one more day...

I was trying to think of who Kellhus reminded me of, and thanks to this thread, I've finally remembered. Felix from Steakly's Armor. As much fun as that book was, it's not exactly an all-time great. I think if Bakker focused the narrative exclusively on Kellhus, that's the kind of book you'd get.

And, yeah, most of the characters evoke very little empathy (which seems to be inversely proportional to the interest they evoke), especially in the first book. Strangely, I found the one truly good character kind of boring, annoying, and ultimately useless. Actually, come to think of it, there were two, and the observation for the one fits the other.

Akka and Esmi are both flawed yet likeable characters. The same for Xin later on. Cnaiur... at times.

And I feel Bakker's more a cross between the historian Harold Lamb and Zindell. *shrug* ________________
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within my shadow. Change is coming. Now is my time. Listen to my muscle memory. Contemplate what I've been clinging to. -Tool, "Forty-Six & Two" <i>Edited by: Sylvanus at: 1/18/06 11:16 am
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Well, I actually had some reading time this morning, and it is now official. Halfway through the first book, Bakker has me seriously hooked.

He is quite a gifted writer, and I can see why he is sometimes compared to Herbert, as both writers use a large number of factions jostling for power in an Imperial setting, as well as religion as a force in society. I can also see why Syl compares him to Zindell, as he has a very elegant writing style, and includes both religion and philosophy in the story, and he brings it in through the characters' thoughts and experiences. Like Zindell, he can very brutal to the characters when the story calls for it.

So far its great stuff. And you guys say it gets even better in the second book????

I'm on a serious winning streak lately with the books I have been reading. I had been starting to burn out more than a bit on the sf&f genre, then...
Clarke's Jonathon Strange and Mr. Norrell
Kostova's The Historian
Russell's The Sparrow
Bakker's The Darkness That Comes Before
All of them completely different, and all of them simply marvelous. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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Quote:So far its great stuff. And you guys say it gets even better in the second book????

I think The Warrior Prophet represent a more seamless read, the direction is essentially a shared one, tand thus the story seems to flow much easier, and the aforementioned 'setting up' of event is gone, as we are at the event (Holy War).

I think overall The Warrior Prophet is the best book in the series, however, the last 100 pages in The Thousandfold Thought is incredible.

I think anyone who enjoyed book I, will not be disappointed by book II.

The Bodhisattva

Fantasybookspot.com

My interview this week: Kelly Link
<i>Edited by: Jay Tomio  at: 1/20/06 7:31 am
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Well, I finished reading The Darkness That Comes Before last night. I was very pleased with it.

Will move on to Warrior-Prophet today, provided I get enough housework done. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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Well, yesterday I ended having the flu and was throwing up a lot. One benefit of that was a nice big block of reading time.

I finished the second book Warrior Prophet. It really was, as claimed, better than book one. Since it began with most of the main characters together, there was not all of the set-up needed as there was in the first book, so the second book flowed much more smoothly.

I have been so impressed by Bakker I have started googling around a bit for some background on him. He lives only a couple of hours from me, over in London, Ontario. That makes me wonder if Shakespeare is one of his influences, as there is a wonderful Shakespeare festival near London in a little town called Stratford, where the theater is world class. I know he credits Tolkien and Herbert, but I cannot help but wonder about Shakespeare as well.

Bakker must be every bit as intelligent as his writings indicate, as he is working on a doctoral degreee in philosophy and he apparently studies ancient languages.

I thought this was a good interview about him and about the inspiration for his world:
www.sfsite.com/10a/sb185.htm

There is also a discussion board for his work at:
www.princeofnothing.com/ ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
<i>Edited by: Duchess of Malfi at: 1/23/06 10:45 pm
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Yeah, I'm on that board. Scilvenas there. ________________
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within my shadow. Change is coming. Now is my time. Listen to my muscle memory. Contemplate what I've been clinging to. -Tool, "Forty-Six & Two" <i></i>

I just got an email from Amazon saying my copy of The Thousandfold Thought has shipped.

I just wanted to say that I will do my best not to give spoilers, which can sometimes be pretty difficult when you are excited about a book. Perhaps if Syl and others want to have an in-depth spoiler conversation, we should move to a thread well marked for spoilers, or change this one to a spoiler thread? ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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It finally came in yesterday's mail while I was at work. If I'm gone for a few days, you will all know what I am busy doing. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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I have been reading it a little every day as time allows, and I think it is wonderful.

Nevertheless, it is going very slowly. I keep getting lost in the encyclopedia in the back of the book! ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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I finally forced myself to pull my mind out of the encyclopedia in the back of the book and finished up the story today.

Fantastic, simply fantastic.

This trilogy is one I can see myself pulling off of my shelf every few years and rereading - and finding new things with each and every reread.

That said, there is a lot of graphic violence (most of the story is set in a holy war) and a lot of graphic sex, including incest and rape. I just wanted to warn people, as some simply do not like books with content like that. And this is definately not for youngsters. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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