Ahira's Hangar

David Zindell's Neverness, A Requiem for Homo Sapiens and all things Science Fiction and Fantasy
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 Post subject: Algis Budrys: Rogue Moon
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 4:24 am 
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Master Pilot

Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 12:24 am
Posts: 150
It has been argued by some very smart people, like Marvin Minsky, that the actual material of your brain is not important to the mind that is "you", only the patterns therein. This gives rise to the idea of "uploading", or copying the contents of your mind/consciousness to computer memory at the point of your death to ensure immortality (William Gibson deals with this often, notably in The Winter Market).

Now, the problem I've always had with this concept is that, even if quantum mechanics demands that you must destroy the original in order to copy it perfectly, they can still make multiple copies of "your mind" once they have the information. It seems silly to me to imagine that any two copies will "share" the consciousness of one mind - surely there are now two separate minds which (assuming they're conscious at all) will have two divergent sets of experiences. So, why would you expect that either of them would be a continuation of YOUR consciousness? Oh sure, they would have your memories and personality, but your "awareness"???

Similarly, I don't think I would use the Star Trek transporter (rats!!), if it existed. Call me superstitious, but it seems to me, that when it takes your body apart bit by bit, you are DEAD. A new being identical to you (it even thinks it's you!) is then assembled out of your atoms, and everything SEEMS hunky-dory. Sorry, not me, mister.

So, anyway, I thought it was totally cool to find this Algis Budrys book (Rogue Moon), published in 1960(!) that addresses all these issues. I'm certain it's not the first "teleporter" story ever written, but I bet it was the first, maybe one of the few, to really think things out. It's also fairly technical and realistic, in a late 50's sorta way.

The dialog is a bit odd. It reminds me a lot of the hardboiled writers like Chandler and Spillane, where everybody's a tough guy (or gal) with a snappy, smart-alec line at the ready. A little hard to follow sometimes, not because of any slang they use, but because of the abrupt way they react to each other's emotional short-hand.

This novel seems to have prefigured (if not influenced) the works of several others: the inscrutable alien artifact found on the moon in Clarke's 2001, the Star Trek transporter, and the shattered psyches of the returned explorers in Gibson's Hinterlands.

Well, sorry to have written a whole essay here , but this is the only place I can think of to tout this most impressive forgotten classic, where someone might actually appreciate it.

Budrys' other novels, Michaelmas and Who, are also supposed to be very good, if you ever have a chance to pick them up. <i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Algis Budrys: Rogue Moon
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 7:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 2:23 am
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"This gives rise to the idea of "uploading", or copying the contents of your mind/consciousness to computer memory at the point of your death to ensure immortality"--very good Gibson point! Read the Neverness series, see "vastening", other examples and how Ede integrated his entire conciousness in2 a computer...(I think I read Rouge Moon in 72..hmmm....) And now Danlo looked in that direction, too. He remembered that snowy owls mate in the darkest part of deep winter, and so along with this beautiful white bird perched in a tree a hundred feet away, he turned to face the sea as he watched and waited.

Ahira, Ahira, he called out silently to the sky. Ahira, Ahira<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Algis Budrys: Rogue Moon
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 12:24 am
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Oh, that's right. I keep forgetting - I can use terms like "vastening" here, and people will actually know what I'm talking about.

Hey, that's cool to hear that someone else has read Rogue Moon, danlo! Maybe it's not as obscure as I thought.

<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Algis Budrys: Rogue Moon
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 2:23 am
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I think it was lying on the shelf of a Summer rental on the New Jersey shore! And now Danlo looked in that direction, too. He remembered that snowy owls mate in the darkest part of deep winter, and so along with this beautiful white bird perched in a tree a hundred feet away, he turned to face the sea as he watched and waited.

Ahira, Ahira, he called out silently to the sky. Ahira, Ahira<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Algis Budrys: Rogue Moon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:11 am 
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Lady Scryer
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Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 5:11 pm
Posts: 9653
Location: Michigan, USA
I haven't heard of this book before, but it does sound interesting...I enjoyed the Neverness books which used concepts like vastening quite a bit...perhaps if I ever run across this book, I will give it a try! Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
****Tavern Wench of DOGMA, the Defenders of George Martin's Art****<i></i>


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