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 Post subject: The Return of the King Movie Topic!!! (SPOILERS!!!)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:07 pm 
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Post away! I won't look till 2mrrw nite. Beware: if you have NOT yet seen the movie-SPOILERS ABOUND!!!! *****
Before, you are wise; after, you are wise. In between you are otherwise.
Fravashi saying (from the formularies of Osho the Fool) <i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of the King Movie Topic!!! (SPOILERS!!!)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:57 pm 
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Saw it Wednesday morning. Images and lines are still echoing in my mind...

Shelob's lair... eagles in the mist... Bilbo's last line... the very moment Arwen ceases to be immortal... the Battle of Pelennor Field... "For Frodo!"... Almost everything about the Rohirrim (the charge, especially, with Eowyn and Merry and thousands of warriors raising their swords and screaming "DEATH!!!")... the Witch King... "That still only counts as one!" ...Gandalf telling Pippin this is not the end... the lighting of the beacons... "How about with a friend?"

*sniff*

Begins with Smeagol, back when he really was just Smeagol, when he and his friend Deagol went fishing. The change once they find the Ring is fascinating and horrible. It also foreshadows much of what's going on with Frodo, how his suspicions grow worse, how at the foot of Mount Doom he can no longer remember the taste of water, or the feel of grass on his feet.

Meanwhile Aragorn is forced to accept what has always frightened him--the prospect of becoming King. Myself, I feel a lot more reassured that Aragorn doesn't want such power--he's far less likely to abuse it. The contrast between Theoden, who--like Aragorn--feels unworthy (but is wrong) and Denethor, full of fierce, mistaken pride, is a powerful one.

And in each case their actions make all the difference. Theoden may muse about leaving Gondor to its fate, but when the beacons are lit he gathers an army and rides. He looks exhausted when he reaches Minas Tirith, but still it is the King who leads, who organizes the Riders against an Oliphant charge. Thus in the end, he can say, dying "I go to meet my forefathers, but now I need not be ashamed in their mighty company."

Denethor, on the other hand, feels pique on behalf of himself, not his people. When the armies of Mordor come, he says "Theoden has betrayed me" and actually orders his troops to abandon their posts! He stands aloof from all, resenting his only remaining son for being alive (compare that to Theoden's royal desire to Eowyn--"I would see you smile again") and so knows nothing but despair when the crunch comes.

Aragorn is like Theoden. In fact, I'd say he's even been learning how to be a King from the old man. He will do what must be done to win, no matter the cost to himself. Upon learning Arwen has refused to leave, lies sick as the shadow of Sauron falls over the world, he takes up the Sword That Was Broken and tries the Paths of the Dead. Given a choice, he would dare that danger alone. But Gimli and Legolas don't give him that choice.

The hobbits in particular prove their worth, of course. That's the way the story was fashioned. Be is Pippin who saves Faramir or Merry who helps Eowyn slay the Witch King, or Sam who picks up Frodo and carries him--theirs is the courage that makes the difference. When Aragorn is crowned, all four bow to him, but he will not have it. Rather it is he who leads all present--from Elrond and Gandalf to Eomer and Faramir and all the great of Gondor--into kneeling before them!

Wow.

Equally wow was when Frodo wakes and sees Gandalf, alive! No words are needed. They look at each other, smile, and then just laugh. Perfect!

So too was their return to the Shire. The same people going about their lives, looking askance at the strange garb the four are wearing. Nobody asks about Frodo's missing finger. But...Sam now has the courage to get up and speak with Rosie (remember he was terrified of doing so in FOTR). The very next shot is their wedding.

The world has changed. Even as the Elves leave and the dominion of Men begins, many others fade. Yet although that is sad ("Not all tears are evil," Gandalf says), it is also hope. For do we not live in that very age? And as long as these tales touch us, are we not still worthy of the Light?

Which reminds me of a little bit. An exchange in Elvish between Aragorn and Elrond. It helps to know that until he was 18 Aragorn did not know his true name or heritage, that his mother called him "Estel" which is "Hope." Years later, these two repeat the last words Aragorn's mother ever spoke: "I have given Hope to the world of men, but kept none for myself."

Hope, most treasured and wonderous of things, besides which even the Ring is but evil trash, is also the most expensive. "O let my name be in the Book of Love; if it be there I care
Not of the other great book above. Strike it out!
Or write it in anew. But let my name be in the Book of Love!"<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of the King Movie Topic!!! (SPOILERS!!!)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:37 am 
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I saw it at midnight, too. In costume. And I've gotten about two hours of sleep in the past 38 hours.

SPOILERS

It was incredible. It was amazing. For most of the movie I was just sitting there with my hands over my mouth, completely awestruck. And I gasped every time someone got killed in battle or something. And I cried at the end. Several times.

Some of my favorite things about the movie (in no particular order):
- The opening scene with Déagol and Sméagol.
- The sequence with the signal fires being lit on the mountains of Gondor. Absolutely breathtaking.
- Sean Astin. He was incredible. I had my doubts about him as Sam at the beginning, but he really makes a great Sam. He just got more and more Sam-like as the movies progressed.
- Pippin singing. Aragorn singing Elendil's Oath!
- The Dead. I thought they were very well done.
- Gandalf and Frodo laughing at the end. It was a throwback to the beginning of FOTR, when Frodo meets Gandalf driving his cart down to Bag End.
- Everyone piling into Frodo's room and grinning like crazy.
- The final scene, where Sam comes back to his family. Straight out of the book.
- Shelob. She was definitely creepy enough - I was worried about that.
- The scene where Sam thinks Frodo is dead, and says one of my favorite lines: "Frodo, Mr. Frodo! Don't go where I can't follow! Wake up!"
- Gwaihir and the Eagles.
- Frodo remembering the Shire again.
- Another one of my favorite lines: "I'm glad you're with me, here at the end of all things, Sam."
- The great battle sequences at the Pelennor Fields.
- That first shot of Minas Tirith - it was breathtaking.
- Gandalf & Co. riding up to Isengard and finding Merry and Pippin sitting there eating and smoking. I loved that part in the book.
- After Sam finds Frodo in the Orc-tower above Cirith Ungol, there's a shot of Frodo hanging the Ring around his neck, over his bare chest - and in that shot, Frodo looks eerily similar to Gollum. I thought that was a great touch.
- Merry and Éowyn killing the Witch King.
- Aragorn yelling, "For Frodo!" before charging Sauron's forces at the Black Gate. And then Merry and Pippin charging right after him.
- Legolas and Gimli continuing their body count.
- Gimli saying, "I never thought I'd be fighting beside an Elf," and Legolas replying, "How about a friend?"
- Merry and Pippin maturing before our eyes.
- The camera panning over a map of Middle-Earth to show the path the hobbits took on their return journey.
- Seeing the lovely green hills of the Shire, one last time.
- Arwen's storyline tends to bore me, but I really liked her "vision" of her son running to Aragorn.
- The music after Sam and Rosie's wedding: "Concerning Hobbits" - one of my favorite parts of the whole soundtrack.
- The Gondor theme. The Rohan theme. Heck, the whole freaking soundtrack.

Things I didn't like about the movie:
- Frodo sending Sam away on the stairs of Cirith Ungol. I understand that they were trying to make a point about how the Ring makes you paranoid and turns you against your friends, but I don't think that was the way to do it. It completely ruined a scene that was very poignant in the book: Gollum watches Frodo and Sam sleeping, and for a moment he just looks like an old, tired hobbit. I think if Sam hadn't woken up and snapped at him, he might have rethought his decision to send them in to Shelob at that point.
- That whole "Arwen is dying" bit. What on earth was that all about?

Other highlights of my premiere experience:
- Getting there at 8:30 and being the first ones on line!
- Talking with the people right behind us in line. We had some great conversations.
- Showing off my cool costume, and the cloaks I made for myself and my friend.
- Taking pictures with anyone who came by in costume.
- Convincing a mall cop to let us into the Trilogy theater to find a woman who was dressed as a hobbit. Everyone had seen her, but no one knew where she was. We finally found her, and then everyone in the theater wanted to take a picture of the three hobbits together.

Overall impressions:
- Wow.
- When can I see it again?
- Peter Jackson.
- entire cast.
- everyone else who worked on this movie! <i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of the King Movie Topic!!! (SPOILERS!!!)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 9:09 pm 
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I thought it was wonderful. It made me laugh...it made me cry...the spider parts made me screech!
I was so glad to have seen it...yet it also made me sad to see it ended...I don't know that I will ever see any movie so well made in my lifetime again as the three parts of The Lord of the Ring... ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of the King Movie Topic!!! (SPOILERS!!!)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:58 am 
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I enjoyed the movie overall.

Some of my complaints: the scenes with Denethor were all wrong, I thought. And I also didn't like Frodo sending Sam away. And what happened to the Rangers of the North turning up to take the Paths of the Dead with Aragorn?

The whole bit about Arwen dying was gratuitous.

Although Elrond doesn't come to Minas Tirith at the time shown in the movie, the scene of him handing Aragorn the Sword was very effective, I thought.

Quote:Meanwhile Aragorn is forced to accept what has always frightened him--the prospect of becoming King. Just want to point out that this was an invention of the movie script, and never appeared in the original Tolkien.

Did anyone notice in the credits there was a Barad Dur destruction lead? And an Inferno Artist.

I wanna see the movie again.

~MsMary~ "Does the walker choose the path, or the path the walker?"<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of the King Movie Topic!!! (SPOILERS!!!)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:33 am 
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I thought the movie was absolutely amazing!!

The battle of Pellenor Fields was brilliant - Oliphants!!!!!
Shelob scene almost blew it but ended up great in the end
The dead following Aragorn was great (I agree with MsM - see her comment above)
The huge battering ram!
Faramir going on the suicide charge to Ogiliath
Merry & Eowyn taking down the witch King was awesome!
"I am no man!"
The end of the ring/Sauron with Frodo, Sam & Gollum was simply perfect.

A few complaints:
What was up with Arwen???
The trip up the stairs & sending Sam away was all wrong
I was very dissapointed with the ending - the whole part about re-taking the Shire, Merry & Pippin taking charge & rallying the hobbits against Saruman & Grima was totally passed over. You only see about Sam being Mayor if you read what Frodo is writing very quickly before he closes his book

Still a once in a lifetime event, as Duchess alluded to above - I can't wait to get the trillogy on DVD - maybe they'll have an alternate ending.....

A bold undertaking by Jackson, with overall, a very good finished product (even if we Tolkien fans find a few discrepancies...) Cripple but free; I was blind all the time I was learning to see<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of the King Movie Topic!!! (SPOILERS!!!)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:36 pm
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Ya know, I KNOW that the movie was well done and I APPLAUD many parts because they truly did run in the heart and emotion of the series.

But I've noticed something that I am wondering about.

When I read a work that to me is "LARGER THAN LIFE", it seems that there just is no way for a movie to do it equal justice.

Does that make sense?

I'm not be critical of the LOTR movies, just making an observation.

Does anyone else feel this way?

I think that the movie theatre in my mind is the best theatre of all!! <i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of the King Movie Topic!!! (SPOILERS!!!)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:13 am 
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I totally agree-but think Jackson did the best job anyone could have-cinema-wise...I was quite pleased *****
Before, you are wise; after, you are wise. In between you are otherwise.
Fravashi saying (from the formularies of Osho the Fool) <i></i>


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