Ahira's Hangar

What can u guys tell me about Wizards--the Istari? is that the name of the order? Sauraman of many colors? Gandalf the Gray? What color was Radagast? What about old nasty boy himself what r his xaxct origins? I don't think I'll ever get the "appreciation 4 the little details" in LOTR until I read it 4 the 3rd time and buy some guide like The Tolkien Primer, or Companion, whatever it's called.... How far do you fall Pilot?<i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 6/20/02 2:41:35 pm
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<b> There were 5 istari:
Gandalf the Grey
Sauraman the White
Radagast the Brown (My favorite. Wise in animal lore)
The other two had blue cloaks and not much is said about them. They were said to have gone into a section of middle earth and achieved a kind of cult following.
None knew from whence they came except for Cirdan of the Havens, and he told only Elrond and Galadriel about them, and then only that they came from across the Sea.</b>
Arise now, Riders of Théoden!Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded!Forth Eorlingas!<i></i>

What about Sauron, how did he come about? What about the old races and the creation of the rings? How far do you fall Pilot?<i></i>

<b> Sauron was a lieutenant under the evil Morgoth. He had more names than Lord Foul!
Actually Sauron was not evil in the beginning but was seduced into evil dring the First Age (similar to Darth Vader?). Then Sauron seduced the Elves. When Morgoth was destroyed, Sauron managed to survive; slept for about 500 years; awoke and found a place in which to build Barad-dur, and stayed there throughout the 2nd Age.
Sauron tricked Celebrimbor, and each gave knowledge to the other. It was while working with this great Elven craftsman that Sauron developed the One Ring.
Sauron again slept through a part of the Third Age; then lost the One Ring; then began searching for it.
He led a full life (so to speak).
Probably more than you wanted, but like an Ent story, it was hard to shorten it, and yet, I left out much. </b> Arise now, Riders of Théoden!Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded!Forth Eorlingas!<i></i>

No, it's great but raises even more questions! Who is Morgoth? where did HE come from? What manner of being IS Sauron that he can live so long? Demi-god? Pure evil? How far do you fall Pilot?<i></i>

<b> Morgoth was another name for Melkor (also spelled Melchar). He was part of the Valar who was tempted and fell from the noble Valar when he desired the three Slimarils. He did all sorts of terrible things and was finally defeated by the Valar. However, one of his created servants, Sauron, lived on and became the terror that we know from LOTR.
Sauron was immortal in spirit (I guess through being created by an immortal). Sauron's body was destroyed in the downfall of Numenor, but his immortal spirit lived on. He was finally cast down into the void (where ever that is) in the battle before his stronghold when his ring was destroyed.
As for "pure evil", it did seem that all evil gravitated toward him. </b> Arise now, Riders of Théoden!Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded!Forth Eorlingas!<i></i>

Great stuff, Theoden. I noticed only one error: Melkor, later known as Morgoth (which means the Dark Enemy of the World), was not destroyed, being an indestructible being like all the Valar. He was chained and cast into the Void, where, one assumes, he remains to this day.

~MsMary~ "Does the walker choose the path, or the path the walker?"<i>Edited by: MsMaryMalone  at: 6/23/02 2:55:00 pm
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Gorthaur The Maia was seduced by Melkor at the beginning of Arda according to The Silmarillion. Gorthaur was also known as Sauron.

The Valar, the order of Gods Melkor belonged to, sent equals (i.e. other Maiar) to Middle Earth to rally support against Sauron. These Maiar spirits took the form of the order of Wizards. The Istari.

Each Vala chose a Maia to send as their representative. IIRC Curumo/Curunir/Saruman was Aule's choice. Olorin/Mithrandir/Gandalf was Manwe's choice IIRC, and Radagast was Yavanna's.

Only Gandalf stuck to the plan of course. The rest strayed to a greater or lesser extent.

When Gandalf dies in Moria, his spirit returned to Valinor. His spirit was sent back, re-clothed in body, to Lothlorien and he carried on the fight. When Saruamn was killed his spirit was denied return to Valinor, and so he persied utterly. Similarly Sauron the Maia when the Ring was destroyed.

You will notice that both Sauron and Saruman's spirits took the form of clouds attempting to move West, before they are dispersed by the Wind, or, as I think, the Breath of Manwe Sulimo, The Lord of the West, Chief of the Valar. Aure entuluva !<i></i>

So Morgoth is still chained 2 the bowels of the Earth and Sauron was sucked back up 2 Valinor and denied return? Or did he just disperse totally? How far do you fall Pilot?<i></i>

<b> That's my opinion: the bodies were mortal, but the spirits/souls were immortal. Had Tolkien lived to write some more, he may have even had Morgoth and Sauron returning after a time of recouperation (similar to Lord Foul each time Covenant defeated him: rest up, restore, and go back into the bad guy business).
Very good clarification, Beren! </b> Arise now, Riders of Théoden!Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded!Forth Eorlingas!<i></i>

Hey, what about me?

~MsM~ "Does the walker choose the path, or the path the walker?"<i></i>

*pat pat*

~Foamy~ <i></i>

<b> Please forgive a doddering old king, Ms. Mary! Yes, your clarification was certainly excellent! </b> Arise now, Riders of Théoden!Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded!Forth Eorlingas!<i></i>

MsMaryMalone's spot on. Morgoth waits beyond The Doors of Night, but his shadow is still felt of a time across the World. But come the Last Battle, Dagor Dagorath, Turin will slay Morgoth with the Black Sword, and avenge the family of Hurin and Morwen. Aure entuluva !<i></i>

"Does the walker choose the path, or the path the walker?"<i></i>