Ahira's Hangar

This is a strange idea that came to my mind (or what passes for one, anyway).

Where did Hobbits come from? Okay, we know they've been around for a long time. They are described as an "ancient" people. And they are clearly derived from essentially human stock. Yet they are smaller, tougher and longer-lived than Men.

If the Numenoreans derived from the mating of Man and Elf, might not Hobbits be the result of mating of Man and Dwarf? After all, the history of Dwarves is almost completely unknown. There were seven houses, but all we know about are Durin's Folk. Who knows what else might have happened during the First Age? Elves, after all, only told history from their point of view.

What do you think? <i></i>

Then Man was thrown in the dungeons 4 contributing 2 the delinquency of Miners!! Oh my God that was bad! (runs away @ lightspeed ) Interesting question Zahir... out... And now Danlo looked in that direction, too. He remembered that snowy owls mate in the darkest part of deep winter, and so along with this beautiful white bird perched in a tree a hundred feet away, he turned to face the sea as he watched and waited.

Ahira, Ahira, he called out silently to the sky. Ahira, Ahira<i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 2/15/03 4:20:17 pm
</i>

Quote:Oh my God that was bad!

Understanding is the first step to recovery. <i></i>

What's this about Numenoreans being offspring of elves and men ? The Royal House is the only people would could cliam to have Eldar blood

As for Hobbits, dwarf and man ? That sounds so very Tolkien I smoke Mc's, not Crack<i>Edited by: BerenCAMLOST7 at: 2/16/03 3:47:25 am
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Certainly the Royal Family were the ones descended from Elros, but over the course of three thousand years don't you think the number of people who could claim descent from them got to be pretty huge? <i></i>

Nope, cus there are (according to Tolkien) only 3 unions between the Eldar and Edain. Tuor and Idril, Luthien and Beren, and Arwen and Aragorn. We can forget about the last one, so you are just left with the other two, the descendants of whom form the Royal House of Numenor. So I am afraid that there is very little Eldar blood in Numenorean veins.

As for Hobbits, they are just small men. Tolkien names them as Mankind in his Letters and makes no mention of any dwarvish blood in their evolution. I smoke Mc's, not Crack<i></i>

Okay think about this for a moment.

Elros gets married and has kids. We know his dynasty ruled Numenor for over three millennia. Who did they marry? Since it was considered shocking for Ar-Pharazon to wed his first cousin (Tar-Palantir's daughter), I think we can eliminate incest.

We also know Elendil's entire family was descended from one of Elros' descendants. I can't think of any reason not to assume other noble families in Numenor also intermarried with the House of Elros.

Here's some basic math. Even assuming the Kings lived the average of three centuries, having no more than three children each--and lets further assume one third of those never had offspring. Over the course of three millennia that still comes out to thousands of people with Eldar blood in their veins by the time Numenor sank. Not much, I grant you, but in Aragorn's case it was enough to greatly extend his life (by the time of LOTR he's in his nineties if you recall, and still very much in his prime).

As for Hobbits, Tolkien calls them an "ancient people" clearly "related" to Men. Just as clearly, however, they are not Men. Four Hobbits--Bilbo, Frodo, Sam and to some extent Smeagol--resisted the power of the One Ring. Yet nine kings of Men fell utterly under the sway of lesser rings, becoming no more than instruments of Sauron's will (Smeagol, tormented and mad, still remained himself after five centuries). Hobbits live longer than humans, reaching a hundred "as often as not." Also, on a near-instinctual level, they seem more comfortable underground.

The origins of Hobbits are explicitly referred to as "lost" so IMO speculation about same are free game. <i></i>

I have always wondered where Hobbits came from. The Sil is very specific as to the origins of the various elves, dwarves, men, ents, orcs, balrogs, and even the dragons. But no mention of Hobbits. Hobbits are clearly related to humans, but there are also some definate differences, as Zahir pointed out. And we can't forget the hairy toes. Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell<i></i>

Aragon lived, I think, to be 190. That was after the general decline in lifespan among the Numenoreans from living in Middle Earth. Elros lived to be close to 500, and the Kings after lived to be around 400. They began their decline with their revolt against their fate: Not giving up their lives of their own volition, but waiting until age made them senile. The list of the Kings in Unfinished Tales Book 1 gives their birth and death years. By the end of Numenor the Kings were living a little over 200 years.

The Kings had to choose from noble families - The tale of Alderion and Erendis was the tale of a long lived King marrying a person of shorter lived blood, and their marital discord. The commoners lived about 3 times longer than a normal lifespan. <i></i>

The mention of Smeagol in this thread reminds me of part of Hobbit history that is often overlooked - Smeagol and Deagol were Stoors. Somewhere (I think in the Appendices) it talks of how the little folk came from the north, and the same places as the people of Rohan had originally came from, and a short way through their history they separated into two groups - some headed West and evetually settled the Shire (The Hobbits), and some stayed near the Anduin (The Stoors) - The two groups were physically different (a little, anyway), but still very closely related.
The question is, what about the history of the Holbytlas before the migration? And what about the Riders of Rohan? Neither group was given any history previous to their arrival in the south. <i></i>