Ahira's Hangar

Has anyone else noticed this? If you read Neverness immediately after War In Heaven, you'll find that one of the pilots in WIH was actually killed in battle in Neverness (which of course preceeds it, chronologically).

I too was totally caught off guard by the "Old Father" revelation. My brother said he saw it coming, but it was a nice surprise for me. ******************

To seek the sacred river Alph, to walk the caves of ice ...<i></i>

I had not noticed that, AlphSeeker. Which name is it? One that might just be another person with the same name? Not likely, I suppose, considering how interesting the names usually are.

Hey, it just occurred to me that the only Fravashi we ever see is not a Fravashi!!

And even though he was introduced in The Wild, how about that Malacolypse Redring!!! Only the second warrior-poet that anybody knows of to wear two red rings! This has got to mean he's destined for something quite unique! And, of course, he is. (Though perhaps not as unique as becomming a god!!) ____________
Highdrake's mastery of spells and sorcery was not much greater than his pupil's, but he had clear in his mind the idea of something very much greater, the wholeness of knowledge. And that made him a mage.<i></i>

Even with our Danlo's veiled hints, the whole Mallory thing was a complete surprise to me!
I thought all of the warrior poets were very cool, but especially the one you mentoned!
And I loved the part where Tam was brought back to herself, got up, and started dancing naked. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
<i></i>

Why does Jonathan have to die???
I mean dosen't Danlo suffer enough in this book?
Why does Zindell have to completely crush him phisically and emotionally? And how is it possible to survive such suffering? I'm completely in awe of Danlo, after taking so many beatings, how does he have the will to carry on?
I'm still in the middle of reading, I hope it's a happy end!
-pitch <i></i>

Let us know when you're done! ____________
Highdrake's mastery of spells and sorcery was not much greater than his pupil's, but he had clear in his mind the idea of something very much greater, the wholeness of knowledge. And that made him a mage.<i></i>

Finished!
Wow what an ending!
Amazing how Danlo reaches enlightment while lying paralized in the tower, and how it completely transforms him.
But I think that the change began when he killed that bear, somehow I felt that was a turning point for him.
I would never have guessed with Old Father...

It was a great series, so many "key sentences", sometimes I felt that I was reading ahead too quickly to follow the occurences, that I was missing a lot. I must read it again someday.

-pitch <i></i>

I know I'll enjoy rereading all these books some day!

So do you now think Jonathan's death was necessary, rather than further torturing him unnecessarily? I think it was a necessary step on his path. Like all the things that happened to him on the various planets, the end result wouldn't have happened without it. He wouldn't have been prepared.

It was also necessary in order to get Tamara back to wholeness. Understanding how perfectly she could remember him was her only motivation for remembrancing. This did not merely bring her back to Danlo, which would have been a damned poor excuse for creating and killing off the character. It also means that Tamara can now help spread the word. ____________
Highdrake's mastery of spells and sorcery was not much greater than his pupil's, but he had clear in his mind the idea of something very much greater, the wholeness of knowledge. And that made him a mage.<i></i>

Yes I can see why Jonathan's death was a necessary link in the chain of events that brought Danlo to the point that he wanted to die. Only through complete abandonment he was able to become one with the One memory. Poor Jonathan, he was such an amazing kid *sniffing*.

About Tamara, there was always something that bothered me. Why was she unable to put the past behind and move ahead? Why did being able to love again depended on regaining her memories? Are you not a whole person even though you forget things from your past? I for one do not remember anything until I was about 5 years old...
In any case, if I met Danlo I would fall for him in a minute. Why couldn't she love him anew? why did knowing that she had once loved him matter?

-pitch <i></i>

I think the lesser part of Tamara's not loving Danlo was just the usual human reaction to what seemed like a lot of pressure to love Danlo. Not pressure from Danlo, or anyone else, but from... what? the universe? I mean, she didn't doubt what everybody told her - that she loved him completely. But the bigger part of the problem was that, in a very real way, because of what Hanuman did, she couldn't love him any more. The ability was not longer a part of her psyche. As she got to know him again, she recognized many qualities in him that were very attractive, but they simply couldn't bring about love. But when she touched the One Memory, she found the parts of her that Hanuman destroyed, the parts that resonated with Danlo. She was whole again.

What I'm thinking is not as easy to see as physical damage, but just as sure. If Hanuman had cut off her legs, she might see people running, see how much joy it gave them, and wish she could join them. But she wouldn't be able to. Same with having that part of her mind removed. She could see the love-worthy qualities in Danlo, but couldn't love him.


Quote:In any case, if I met Danlo I would fall for him in a minute.Heh. You know, you and I haven't interacted very much, so I really don't know anything about you. Does this mean you're a woman? ____________
Highdrake's mastery of spells and sorcery was not much greater than his pupil's, but he had clear in his mind the idea of something very much greater, the wholeness of knowledge. And that made him a mage.<i></i>

So what you're saying is that in addition to "erasing" Tamara's memory he "cut away" part of her mind, the part that has the capability of feeling love towards the other sex. Well that makes sense now, since Tamara had not loved anyone else since Hanuman raped her memories.
It is interesting then, what is the connection between mental capabilities such as feeling love, anger, fear, with memory. I never gave this much thought till now...

Quote:Heh. You know, you and I haven't interacted very much, so I really don't know anything about you. Does this mean you're a woman?

It means that either I'm a woman or I just came out of the closet Seriously, yes, I'm a woman, 41, wife, mom, software engineer, and future holistic nutritionist. <i></i>

Quote:So what you're saying is that in addition to "erasing" Tamara's memory he "cut away" part of her mind, the part that has the capability of feeling love towards the other sex. Well that makes sense now, since Tamara had not loved anyone else since Hanuman raped her memories.Actually, I hadn't thought about it extending that far. I only thought Hanuman had cut away the part that could love Danlo. But maybe you're right. After all, if she could love any man, Hanuman probably would have made her love him.

Quote:It is interesting then, what is the connection between mental capabilities such as feeling love, anger, fear, with memory. I never gave this much thought till now...Hmm, neither had I. But I guess the connection could be gigantic. Does it make sense that any aspect of those emotions that are not instinctual must be learned? Meaning you cannot be angry at someone if you don't remember what they did that made you angry. You can't love someone without remembering the things about them that you love.

Quote:It means that either I'm a woman or I just came out of the closet Yeah, I had considered that possibility. But the odds were with you being a woman. ____________
Highdrake's mastery of spells and sorcery was not much greater than his pupil's, but he had clear in his mind the idea of something very much greater, the wholeness of knowledge. And that made him a mage.<i></i>

Well, I didn't see the big reveal coming at all at the end of this book. My jaw was as agape as Bardo's. I felt the same way he did: "What, are you kidding me, I gave him this ring, not you you big fur-covered freak!" Wow, what an ending. It fit perfectly, though. Danlo's geneology is so screwed up. Soli didn't know he had a kid, Mallory didn't know he had a kid, and Danlo didn't know he had a kid. Danlo was raised by his grandfather, but didn't know it until after Soli's death. And he was also raised by his father, but didn't know it until his father's death. I think that Jonathon's death made sense because it put an end to the crazy paternal cycle. It was painful to read, though.

I guess there were some hints that Old Father was Mallory. The most obvious was when OF met Danlo after he'd been cut into Mallory's likeness, and OF knew immediately he was Danlo (that did happen, didn't it?). Also, I remember thinking it was pretty weird in The Broken God that OF was able to get a sponsorship for Danlo so he could try out for the Academy. I wasn't even really sure why OF would want to do that, but now it's pretty clear. Regardless, I was completely shocked by the ending. I never saw it coming.

You finally see why I love these book so much! Now if more Watchers and folks in general would just read them!!!!

It just dawned on me this morning that the woman who prophesied that Mallory was going to return in The Broken God, and then had that big ho-down in the mountains in the middle of the night was actually right. I thought it was weird that Old Father showed up at dawn, but damn, I never would've guessed then that he was fulfilling the prophesy. (This is the proper thread!)

Just finished WIH. Completely bowled over. Redring, the death of Jonathan, the end of Hanu, Old Father's real identity, Tamara...I think there's so much stuff there that needs another reading (or two!) just to really get everything out of this magnificent story.