Ahira's Hangar

I thought it might be nice to have a place where we can recommend "deep" books to each other...particularly in science fiction and fantasy, since so many of us love those genres.
I recently read David Brin's Kiln People and while you could read it as a straightforward sf/detective story on one level, on another it brought up all sorts of interesting questions about free will.
Dan Simmon's Hperion/Endymion books can be read as straightforward science fiction, but there are constant hints of deeper issues, which take full bloom in the fourth book of the series, The Rise of Endymion.
And of course, not enough good things can be said about the Neverness books by David Zindell.

So which books would you like to share?? <i></i>

Look out! She's in love with a duck! And now Danlo looked in that direction, too. He remembered that snowy owls mate in the darkest part of deep winter, and so along with this beautiful white bird perched in a tree a hundred feet away, he turned to face the sea as he watched and waited.

Ahira, Ahira, he called out silently to the sky. Ahira, Ahira<i></i>

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
****Tavern Wench of DOGMA, the Defenders of George Martin's Art****<i></i>

I assume Neverness will turn out to be all I could want in this way. Still 100 pages to go in the first book. Some of it is kinda amusing, but plenty of it is pretty good philosophising. I certainly hope I end up thinking as much about the series, fantasy- and philosophy-wise, as I do about TCTC and Earthsea.

So did you have SF/sci-fi in specifically in mind for this thread?

I'm going with "no." So...

Three great authors, all of which I've mentioned at least a couple times, are Hermann Hesse, Ayn Rand, and Richard Bach. ______________
Highdrake's mastery of spells and sorcery was not much greater than his pupil's, but he had clear in his mind the idea of something very much greater, the wholeness of knowledge. And that made him a mage.<i></i>

I really like the way the Huxley bros. think Aldous and Julian. Alan Watts and Richard Brautigan 2...Crowley was very strange but very smart--William Blake 2... And now Danlo looked in that direction, too. He remembered that snowy owls mate in the darkest part of deep winter, and so along with this beautiful white bird perched in a tree a hundred feet away, he turned to face the sea as he watched and waited.

Ahira, Ahira, he called out silently to the sky. Ahira, Ahira<i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 6/13/03 3:21 am
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Chronicles of Tao for a fictional introduction to taoism and qigong in the form of an adventure story.
The dune series obviously
and
"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle maintenance" by Robert Pirsig.

I have others but thats all I can think of for now.


<i></i>

and another fantasy novel - hard to find but worth it.
Groas Other Eye - Dennis Schmidt
blends mythologies from various cultures - norse, egyptian and chinese. What really got me was a character who goes about spouting taoist wisdom. It was the first time I came across taoism at all - I was 15 when I first read it.

www.amazon.com/exec/obido...ce&s=books <i></i>

My introduction to Taoism was in the original Kung Fu tv series, although I didn't know it at the time. But Caine did mention looking for the Tao one time. (I have them on tape, and I'll find it so I can share the conversation with you. It was funny.) But when I started reading the Tao Te Ching several years ago, I actually recognized some of the lines. I guess I was just lucky enough to have picked up the same translation they used. ______________
Highdrake's mastery of spells and sorcery was not much greater than his pupil's, but he had clear in his mind the idea of something very much greater, the wholeness of knowledge. And that made him a mage.<i></i>

OK, here's the conversation from Kung Fu where Caine mentions the Tao. He's been hanging out with this crazy guy for two episodes.
__________________
McBernie: "Where was you headed when I saved you at that creek, first time you run onto me."

Caine: "North."

McBernie: "What was up north you wanted to reach."

Caine: "No particular thing. Mr. McBernie, I know how it must seem to you. I find it hard to explain. I strive for no thing. I try to reach no place. Unless you could call the Tao a place."

McBernie: "Where? What place?"

Caine: "Tao. Tao."

McBernie: "Taos? 'Course it's a place! Down in New Mexico territory, near Santa Fe. Due south o' here."

Caine: "No, Mr. McBernie."

McBernie: "Ah, yes, Sasquatch. You're looking for Taos, and you're headed due opposite to it."

Caine: "The Tao I seek is not in New Mexico. [pause] Oh! It is in New Mexico. It is here. It is everywhere."

McBernie: "There you go, you see. You trying to tell me that Taos ain't in New Mexico? Jeez, I outta take you down there and rub your fool nose in it."

Caine: "It is not 'Taos'. It is 'Tao'. There is no sssss in it."

McBernie: "There you go. See? Tried to do you a good turn, and what do I get? Back-bitin' and [can't make out a word] remarks! Well that does it, Sasquatch, you're on your own! I've done all I can to bring you this far safe and sound. The cord is cut."

Caine: "What is a 'cord'?"

McBernie: "Imbecilical cord. I'll go my way, you go yours. If you can find one."

Caine: "My way is the Tao. And I can find it again."

McBernie: "Couldn't find your own (kind) with both your hands in a (Parkerberry) Bush." [Not sure about the words inside the ( ).

Caine: "I do not know what kind of bush that is, but I can take care of myself." [Caine doesn't seem too sure about them either. ]
_______________________
At the end of the episode, McBernie goes to hug Caine goodbye, and, to our and Caine's surprise, kisses him right on the lips. ______________
Highdrake's mastery of spells and sorcery was not much greater than his pupil's, but he had clear in his mind the idea of something very much greater, the wholeness of knowledge. And that made him a mage.<i></i>

I just remembed another of my favourite sf novels
radix by AA Atanasio. One of the best human potential novels I have come across. In terms of character growth you could make valid comparisns to Danlo in the broken god and Paul Atreides in Dune. Atanasio's writing at its best has a lyrical quality that is quite unique.

www.amazon.com/exec/obido...ce&s=books <i></i>

That's, kinda, true, but danlo is well, not to spoil, but alot less violent--Go to Falling to Neverness there's an interesting thread on that subject called Danlo of Dune (if it wasn't wiped out by the recent hack--if it was I'll go retreive it soon).

I think we've talked about the Dan Millman books somewhere around here before: The Peaceful Warrior and the Sacred Journey of the Peaceful Warrior-now those are some of my favorite deep books. He just came out with a fascinating new book along that line called The Journey of Socrates. I must buy that and read that asap! *****
Before, you are wise; after, you are wise. In between you are otherwise.
Fravashi saying (from the formularies of Osho the Fool) <i></i>

I cannot say enough good things about Mary Doria Russell's science fiction novel The Sparrow and its sequel Children of God.

They ask so many deep questions about the existence and nature of God, about whether the means ever justify an end, and the nature of justice in a class based culture. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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Russell's historical novel A Thread of Grace is equally deep, and almost too painful to read. It delves deeply into sin and courage and self-sacrifice, among other topics, in a WW2 torn Italy. Thousands of ordinary Italians shelter both Italian Jews and those Jews who come streaming over the Alps from Vichy France seeking safety. They do so at huge personal risk and unimaginable cost at the hands of the brutal Nazi occupiers.

So many deep questions arise:

Are there any sins so great that they simply cannot be forgiven by either man or God?

If you have committed unimaginable sins on an unimaginable scale, is there any way you can ever redeem yourself as a human being?

Is killing ever right? Even if it is to protect innocent lives? And how do you live with yourself if you are placed in such a position?

An example of the painful choices people have to make:


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A member of the Resistance is arrested, jailed, and tortured by the Nazis. He is a good and blameless man, who happens to know the whereabouts of hundreds (if not thousands) of Jews and the people hiding them. If he breaks, thousands of inncoent lives might be lost, among them many children. There is an outside chance someone can get into the jail and kill him; there is no chance to get him out alive. What do you do? You know he would rather die than reveal where those children are; you know he is being brutally tortured...do you have the right to take his life under these circumstances? ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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I'll definitely check out The Sparrow. Sounds like my kinda stuff! ____________
Highdrake's mastery of spells and sorcery was not much greater than his pupil's, but he had clear in his mind the idea of something very much greater, the wholeness of knowledge. And that made him a mage.<i></i>

Damn! It took a hundred pages to get the signal!

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Highdrake's mastery of spells and sorcery was not much greater than his pupil's, but he had clear in his mind the idea of something very much greater, the wholeness of knowledge. And that made him a mage.<i>Edited by: Highdrake  at: 3/17/06 2:04 pm
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