Ahira's Hangar

Ok, recently on another forum the topic of religion and SF has been touched on tangntially. And the Hangar has looked peripherilly at the topic (see threads headers on Arthur C. Clarke).

FYI, it is known that several SF authors are somewhat anti-religious (Clarke, Heinlein, Spinard, Phillip Pullman). Some SF authors claim to be devotly religious (OS Card, JRR Tolkien, CS Lewis, Asimov (at some times in his life)) Conversely, is religion against SF, I cannot think of specific instances. Anyone. I know some Hangarites are religious. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i>Edited by: taraswizard at: 6/23/05 12:29 pm
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Off the top of my head I cannot think of any religions coming out against science fiction -- but I think some Christian fundamentalists don't like certain fantasy books as exemplified by Harry Potter book burnings.

It's a really good question, Taras.

I wish I could give you a better answer.

If you don't mind, I would like to ask a side question of how religions also view horror books/movies/tv shows. I know that you enjoy some vampire books and shows like Buffy. Have you ever heard of any religions/religious people having a problem with such works? Since many of them show evil beings and/or dark magic, does that bother some religious people? ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
<i></i>

Duchess, very good question and I did not think of that topic when I was writing my first message.

AFAIK, horror topics as far as they might deal with supernaturalistic phenomena have always been problematic to the religious community; for example, I think religious officials accused Mary Shelley's Frankenstein as being blasphemous. And of course any text that deals with magic will be viewed negatively by religious officials.

BtVS is a different case. BtVS was at one time labeled by the Parent's TV Council (PTC) as the second worse show on TV. TBomK, PTC is heavily dominated and influence by religious groups and their opinions. However, PTC's issues with BtVS were less to do with its supernatural themes and more to due with its handling of issues of lesbianism, violence, teen sexuality, parental and adult responsibilty, etc.

IOW, in PTC's opinion Angel is not evil because he used to be a mass murdering blood sucking fiend, but because after he took Buffy's virginity he ignored her and turned against her. Or, instead of saying Faith might be the evil slayer because she allies herself with the evil mayor, but it's really because of her predatory attitude about sensuality. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i>Edited by: taraswizard at: 6/23/05 12:44 pm
</i>

Duchess wrote Quote:Off the top of my head I cannot think of any religions coming out against science fiction -- but I think some Christian fundamentalists don't like certain fantasy books as exemplified by Harry Potter book burnings. To emphasize the point, one should see the frothing lather some Christian fundamentalists can work themselves into concerning Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i>Edited by: taraswizard at: 6/23/05 12:48 pm
</i>

I do not understand how anyone could get into a froth about LOTR. I've always considered it to be a profoundly Christian work, where salvation comes through both faith and good works, and where no one, no matter who, is immune to evil or to temptation.

And, this might be a dumb question -- but why does this parent group find sex more threatening than murder? ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
<i></i>

Duchess, FWIW the fundamentalist who are worked into a lather about LotR point to the following story elements it has magic, wizards, magical creatures (orcs and elves) as part of the story; therefore, it must be anti-Christian. I think they, additionally, get a little worked up about the idea that modern day pagans (Wiccans, and their ilk) are very fond of opus of Tolkien. These objections are of course on the surface riduculous.

And to your second point, IME, media watchdog groups are always more concerned about sexual content than they ever are about violence. BTW. as a personal example, early in 2004 or late 2003, the movie American Pie was shown on TNT, which for me is not a premium cable channel take HBO or Showtime which one pays extra for, and Alyson Hannigan's (Band camp girl, Michelle Flaherty) famous line about her flute was unmodified during the showing. That shocked me. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i></i>

To return to the topic and Duchess's question about Buffy . A well known conservative and I think evangelical Christain magazine (do not remember magazine title) had a feature essay on it's website called something like 'Watch Buffy after your kids go to bed'. Recognizing that BtVS was not just teenage fluff, but that the series dealt with some serious issues, but it their opinion it was not a show for kids. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i></i>

I think it's more a matter of religion being anti-SF than the other way around. Take Wolfe, for example, a fairly devout Catholic. There are some serious religious understones in his work. Now, a completely non-religious person like myself can totally enjoy it, and so may a completely religious person. But a whole lot of religious people, when shown the actions of characters like Severian (an executioner, date rapist, or worse... not to mention being a Christ figure) or even Silk (idolater, apostate priest, and whore lover... not to mention being a Christ figure) or Able (demon lover... not to mention... ok, not sure about that, but definately Arthur), would denounce them. *shrug* ________________
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within my shadow. Change is coming. Now is my time. Listen to my muscle memory. Contemplate what I've been clinging to. -Tool, "Forty-Six & Two" <i></i>

Now, I have read a few things that are stingingly anti-organized-religion (not necessarily anti-any-religion as such, just powerful organized religions that hold a lot of power and have become corrupt as a result). Dan Simmons, Sherri S. Tepper, and Phillip Pullman (who is an atheist and does seem to be anti-religion as such) have all written books like that.

But Wolfe? Who had an arch-angel appear in his Wizard Knight to help out the main character?

Tolkien? Tolkien????

Harry Potter???????

I've never watched Buffy, though I hope to rent the dvd's and watch them if I can ever find the time, so I can't really comment there, but I probably wouldn't want young children to watch a tv series involving vampires and other dark stuff...I can't really comment on older teens or what have you, not having seen the show. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
<i></i>

Gene Wolfe, who by the way is a neigbor to me and Damelon, being he lives in Barrington, IL (FWIW, Fred Pohl lives in Palatine, IL another nearby burb). Has said that his tetraology starting with Shadow of the Torturer is a fictionalized account of his conversion.

taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i></i>

Sorry for ingnoring this thread for awhile.

And back to topic. Many of the founders of SF (the New futurians) were ATT involved and/or interested in Left-wing (socialist) politics. So that probably made them at minimum very sceptical regarding religious matters.

Part of my reason for starting this thread was cause at a convention I went to in the Spring had this as one of their panel topics. Unfortunately, the discussion never got beyond Tolkien was a very Catholic person, CS Lewis was an Anglican and wrote lots of religious books, and Phillip Pullman does not like organized religion at all.

IMnshO, I really think anyone who has even a minimal interest in this topic has to read The sparrow by Mary Doria Russell. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Plan C - http://planc.bravepages.com/main.html<i></i>