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Ahira's Hangar • View topic - A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out

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 Post subject: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:56 am 
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I saw this in this month's National Geographic magazine, and thought it was very interesting. It is an interview with a prominent Egyptian novelist; who also happens to be a dentist, a father, a husband, a moderate Muslim, a humanitarian, and a voice for Western style democracies in the Middle East.

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 Post subject: Re: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:12 am 
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Thanks for the link Duchess. A very very interesting article. I hope that you've posted this in the 'Tank. If not, I'll be doing so.

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 Post subject: Re: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:29 am 
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Irshad Manji writer of book The Trouble with Islam Today. South Asian ethnicity; however, born in Uganda and Canadian by choice. taraswizard
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 Post subject: Re: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:30 am 
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Another moderate muslim I take it Taras?

The thing is of course that pointing them out is bad for the sweeping generalisations that characterise the debate on the War Against Terror.

So they don't get nearly the publicity that the "Kill all Americans" guys do.

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 Post subject: Re: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:27 pm 
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Quote:
Army will protect Turkey's secular system from growing Islamist threat, top general says


By Benjamin Harvey
ASSOCIATED PRESS

3:17 p.m. September 25, 2006

ISTANBUL, Turkey – A top Turkish general said Monday that increasingly powerful Islamist forces threatened the country's secular system and the army would play its role in defending the country against them, the state-run news agency reported.
General Ilker Basbug's comments appeared aimed at both the Islamic-rooted government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and at European Union officials who have repeatedly called on the Turkish military to limit its role in state affairs.



The military views itself as the protector of Turkey's secular identity. Fiercely secular generals have directly led three coups since 1961 and ousted a government from power in 1997 for what they saw as an excessive Islamist bent.
Basbug, head of the Turkish land forces, was speaking to officer trainees at the opening of the school year for a military academy in Ankara.

“Today I say with sadness that the reactionary (Islamist) threat is growing to alarming proportions, even if some circles do not accept it,” he said, according to the state-run news agency Anatolia. “The congregations and sects are becoming the focal point of the movements against the (secular) revolution.”

His remarks suggested the military would not idly watch such developments.

“The Turkish armed forces have always taken sides and will continue to do so in protecting the national state, the unitary state and the secular state,” he said.

Although Turkey's population is 99 percent Muslim, state organs are designed to be uncompromisingly secular. Even wearing a traditional Islamic headscarf is forbidden in schools or government buildings, and the current prime minister has spent time in jail for reciting an Islamic-themed poem.

“The principle of secularism is the cornerstone of the Turkish Republic's values,” Basbug said.

Lawmaker Faruk Celik, a member of Erdogan's ruling party, responded to the general Monday, saying it was the responsibility only of the government to counter any Islamist threat. He also argued for the lifting of restrictions against religious education in Turkey.

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Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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 Post subject: Re: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:32 pm 
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Quote:
Abolish Islamic schools that teach hatred: Karzai
Sunday, September 24, 2006 at 07:11 EDT

MONTREAL — Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Saturday urged the international community to put an end to Islamic schools that teach hatred and produce suicide bombers.

Madrassas, or Islamic schools, are "teaching hatred rather than religion, teaching that some people we must hate, that some people we must destroy," Karzai said at a public luncheon in Montreal.

The Afghan president said it "will take a lot of sacrifice from Afghans, and from the rest of the world to get rid of those places who in the name of madrassas, in the name of religious schools, are teaching hatred to young people and sending them against us, who are actually training suicide bombers against us."

His comments, at the event hosted by the Conseil des Relations Internationales, an academic organization, came on the final day of a three-day visit to Canada.

In an interview published Saturday in the national Canadian newspaper Globe and Mail, Karzai said that Pakistan, Afghanistan's neighbor, must find the political will to eliminate its breeding grounds of terrorism if Afghanistan is to know peace.

Karzai said the Pakistani military must take action and other countries need to pressure them to do so, the newspaper said.

"We have to talk to Pakistan and we have to convince them that it is not in their interest, that it is going to hurt all of us eventually," he was quoted as saying.

Karzai, who attended this week's United Nations General Assembly in New York, is to meet with U.S. President George W Bush at the White House next Tuesday.

On Wednesday, Karzai, Bush and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf are to hold three-way talks on the U.S.-led fight against terrorism.


(AFP)
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 Post subject: voices for Muslim moderation
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:27 pm 
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Al Qaeda warning by king of Jordan
Abdullah says his forces thwarted major bomb plot
Robert Collier, Chronicle Staff Writer

Saturday, April 17, 2004

Jordan's King Abdullah II, asserting that Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda terrorist network is "still very, very effective," said Friday that his security services had foiled a plot to blow up major government buildings and perhaps the U.S. Embassy in Amman.

In a wide-ranging interview with The Chronicle's editorial board, Abdullah, who is Washington's closest ally among Arab leaders, gave a bleak assessment of the fight against terrorism and the situation in neighboring Iraq, where he said civil war was "a possibility."

He admitted being blindsided by President Bush's strong embrace of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon on Wednesday, embodied by Bush's decision to back Israeli annexation of some land in the West Bank.

In a sign that Jordan may not totally escape the bloody convulsions now ripping through Iraq, Abdullah revealed that the arrest of two suspected terrorists two weeks ago had exposed plans to mount one of the most deadly terrorist attacks ever in the Arab world.

The monarch said his security services had followed the trail of the suspects and captured five trucks packed with 17.5 tons of high explosives, which apparently were intended for an attack on the Jordanian prime minister's office and the intelligence ministry.

"It was a major, major operation," Abdullah said. "It would have decapitated the government."

Casualties would have been "in the thousands," he added. "It couldn't have been more sinister."

Abdullah said European anti-terrorism experts were aiding the Jordanian police investigation, but details were still sketchy -- including a solid identification of the type of explosive the suspects were carrying.

He said that although the trucks had come from Syria, "I'm completely confident that Bashar did not know about it," he said, referring to Syrian President Bashar Assad, whom U.S. officials have accused of allowing terrorist groups to use his country's territory.

Abdullah's comments amplified a little-noticed announcement issued two weeks ago. On April 1, Jordanian officials said they had arrested several terrorist suspects and were hunting for two cars laden with explosives. Five days later, the State Department said the attackers were linked to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian terrorist believed linked to al Qaeda, and intended to attack the U.S. embassy in Amman.

On Friday, Abdullah noted that the State Department had publicly said the embassy was a target in the plot, but he said Jordanian investigators had not been able to confirm this.

The incident in Jordan is significant because of Abdullah's low-key yet crucial role as the most pro-American leader in the Arab world -- a role that puts him in a tight bind, squeezed between Washington's desires and the sentiments of his country's population. Jordan is heavily dependent on U.S. aid, yet 60 percent of its population is Palestinian, and anti-American attitudes are widespread.

Asked for an assessment of al Qaeda's strength after three years of intense U.S. pursuit, Abdullah said quickly that it had increased.

But when a Chronicle editor reminded him that Bush had said that al Qaeda had been badly damaged, the monarch backed off. "The organization has been very badly hurt, but ... that doesn't mean it can't hurt you, as we saw in Madrid," he said, referring to the terrorist attacks in Spain last month. "They're still very, very effective."

Abdullah declined to comment directly about Bush's apparently dramatic shift in policy toward Israel -- throwing U.S. support behind Israel's decision to leave some Jewish settlements in the West Bank in place and agreeing that Palestinian refugees cannot be allowed to return to their homes in Israel, which they left during the country's 1948 war of independence.

Abdullah said he had not been forewarned by Bush, an omission that would be widely considered a significant diplomatic snub to a major U.S. partner.

"There were discussions beforehand with members of the administration, but what came out in Washington was different," he said. "We really are at a loss for information. ... Washington has taken us a bit by surprise.

"Honestly, we don't know what the implications are."

Abdullah will have an opportunity for clarification next Wednesday, when he is scheduled to meet with Bush in Washington.

Jordan has had full diplomatic relations with Israel ever since Abdullah's late father, King Hussein, signed a peace treaty with the country in 1994.

Jordan's economy is almost completely dependent on the United States -- in the form of family remittances as well as official U.S. aid. Money sent home by Jordanians living in the United States amounts to $2 billion a year. That accounts for 23 percent of gross domestic product and represents the highest percentage for remittances of any country except Haiti, according to the International Monetary Fund. Official assistance this year amounts to $350 million in economic aid and $204 million in military aid.

On other issues, Abdullah was discreetly critical of Bush administration policy and of Arab politicians:

-- Iraq: He warned that the country might be descending into further conflict. "We're getting closer to that line that makes civil war a possibility," he said. "Six months ago, I didn't think it was a possibility. I still don't think it is, but for the first time we're nervous."

Abdullah sharply criticized the "de-Baathification" campaign in Iraq, saying the decision by U.S. and Iraqi authorities to disband the 500,000-man Iraqi Army and to ban tens of thousands of members of the former ruling Baath Party from government jobs was counterproductive.

"What you did is, you took a third if not more of society and said, 'You're persona non grata,' so a third of the country is isolated," he said. "The problem is that if (Iraqis) wanted to be a teacher, an engineer, or have any job, (they) had to have a party card as a condition of employment. You have to readjust that policy."

The de-Baathification process has been directed by Ahmed Chalabi, a former exile who is a favorite of the Pentagon yet is a fugitive from justice in Jordan. In 1992, a court there convicted Chalabi of fraud and embezzlement in the collapse of a major Jordanian bank in the 1980s and sentenced him to 22 years of hard labor.

Abdullah suggested that Chalabi and other U.S.-backed exiles had ulterior motives in seeking to completely uproot the former regime rather than just removing its top officials.

"When the interim Iraqi government went in, a lot of the people obviously were from the outside, from the opposition groups," he said. "If I can be quite frank, the reason why they didn't want the Iraqi army or the police to be active is because that was the only institution that could have given them a run for their money. Now, by removing law and order, the members of the interim government could strengthen their position."

-- Jordan: Abdullah said that his country of 5.5 million inhabitants is making slow but steady progress toward democracy. Elections for the lower house of parliament last year were generally viewed as free and fair. But Abdullah, who has near-absolute powers, complained that local politicians aren't ready for full democracy yet.

"There are 30 political parties with no agendas," he said. "If you talk to any of the political parties or their representatives in Parliament and ask them, 'What is your agenda, political or social or economic?' they don't have a clue." Abdullah said that he is pressing for a merging of some of the country's parties. "You need to get down to two, three or four parties, left, right and center."

Asked whether he would be willing to turn Jordan into a constitutional monarchy, Abdullah indicated that he was not opposed to the concept. "I see monarchies have to modernize," he said. "Five years, 50 years, it all depends on how the process of maturity of these politicians proceeds."

-- Arab reform: Abdullah said Bush's attempts to spread democracy through the Arab world require greater U.S. diplomatic involvement.

"Unless you solve the Israeli-Palestinian problem, your progress will be limited," he said, adding that Jordan would continue to advocate reform anyway. "If you're forcing reforms on any group, it's always more difficult than having it come from within. Jordan is somewhat isolated in the Middle East because every time we talk about reform ... everybody would say, 'Oh, the Americans are telling you to push reform.'

"No, we're doing reform because we know which way the world is going, and we want to get our act together because it's the right thing to do."

Addressing himself to his fellow Arab rulers, Abdullah said: "We have to press reform. If you -- Arab countries -- do not have enough of a political agenda, it will be forced on you. They have to look in the mirror, but they have to do it in a way in which reform is acceptable, so the country doesn't get taken over by extremists."

Email Robert Collier at rcollier@sfchronicle.com.

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 Post subject: Re: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:28 am 
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Turkish society. I think most Westerners really do not appreciate what goes on there. If a woman chooses to cover her hair as her expression of her religious modesty she can be refused a government job or service. Two examples, the First Lady of Turkey cannot, by custom and accepted practice, wear a head scarf when executing her official functions of her position. Next in a TV show on PBS, a woman who's a Turkish pharmacist, says her parents are both lawyers by education; however, her mother who chooses to wear a scarf cannot practice (wearing a scarf would prohibit from appearing in court). taraswizard
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 Post subject: Re: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:43 am 
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There are so many Americans who seem to think that all Muslim people, countries, and customs are identical - and they have this very distorted view of all of Muslims and their countries and cultures being somehow very violent and dangerous.

Life in Turkey is quite differnt than life in Saudi Arabia which is quite different from life in India. And the Muslim religion itself has different branches, and is no more unified then any other major religion.

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 Post subject: Re: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:50 am 
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Absolutely agree Duchess. And some very interesting articles, thanks.

Interesting (and sad I guess) to see the Jordanian King vary of contradicting Bush though.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:41 pm 
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Quote:
20 women arrested at protest in Somalia
NASTEEX DAHIR FARAH
Associated Press
KISMAYO, Somalia - Men in machine gun-mounted trucks Tuesday quickly dispersed hundreds of women protesting radical Islamic fighters who have taken over this strategic port town and much of the rest of southern Somalia.

At least 20 women were arrested, according to relatives of the demonstrators who spoke on condition of anonymity because they feared reprisals. The trucks carrying the men were flying the black flags associated with Islamic extremism.

The protests came a day after the militants opened fire on demonstrators, killing a teenage boy. Also Monday, Hassan Turki, a leader of the Islamic militia, for the first time acknowledged his forces had been bolstered by foreign fighters he called "our Muslim brothers."

The group's strict and often severe interpretation of Islam raises the specter of Afghanistan's ousted Taliban militia, and contrasts with the moderate Islam that has dominated Somali culture for centuries. The United States has accused the Islamic group of sheltering suspects in the 1998 al-Qaida bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden has portrayed Somalia as a battleground in his war on the U.S.

"While foreign fighters are in our town, we will continue these protests," Hawo Ugas Farah, one of Tuesday's demonstrators, told The Associated Press. "We don't need international terrorists hiding in our country and killing our children."

Still, some Somalis have embraced the radicals because they have brought a semblance of order in a troubled corner of Africa.

A curfew has been imposed on Kismayo, 260 miles southwest of Mogadishu, by the Islamic militia that took control of the town Sunday without a fight, although thousands protested their presence the next day. The Islamic militia swept through southern Somalia since taking over the capital in June.

Somalis fleeing the conflict have pushed the number of refugees in neighboring Kenya to the highest level in a decade, according to the U.N. World Food Program. The number of registered refugees in Kenya has reached 240,000, with thousands of new arrivals, severely straining resources, the U.N. said.

The Islamic group is vying for power with Somalia's increasingly sidelined official government, formed two years ago with U.N. support. The government has failed to establish any control outside its base in Baidoa, 150 miles west of Mogadishu.

Troops from neighboring Ethiopian arrived Monday to support the weak government. Witnesses saw about 300 Ethiopians in a convoy of 50 armored trucks in Bardaale, 40 miles west of Baidoa, the only town held by the government.

Islamic forces believe Ethiopian troops aim to cut off their route between Kismayo and Mogadishu, and called their incursion a declaration of war.

Ethiopia has denied its troops are in Somalia.

In recent days, Islamic militiamen have been operating training camps for the general public in preparation for a possible battle with Ethiopian troops. The students, whose number was unclear, perform physical exercise, shoot at targets and handle weapons.

"We will instruct them in combat tactics so that they can defend their land and religion against the Ethiopian enemy forces occupying Baidoa," said Sheik Abdirahman Janaqow, deputy chairman of the Islamic courts.

Liban Abdi Hussein, a 24-year-old at one of the camps, said he was happy to learn how to fight a holy war against the Ethiopians. "I want martyrdom," he said Tuesday.

Somalia has not had an effective national government since 1991, when warlords overthrew dictator Mohamed Siad Barre and then turned on one another, throwing the country into anarchy. The Islamic group has stepped into the power vacuum and seized an enormous amount of control.

---

Associated Press writers Salad Duhul in Mogadishu, Mohamed Olad Hassan in Baidoa and Chris Tomlinson in Nairobi, Kenya, contributed to this report.



These protestors are obviously risking their lives, but are still protesting by the hundreds. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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 Post subject: Re: A Moderate Muslim Speaks Out
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:44 am 
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Thanks Duchess. This one is definitely getting reposted in the 'Tank.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:22 am 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:39 am 
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 Post subject: Further discussion about Turkey
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:30 pm 
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Let's not be decieved, Turkey's nationalistic secularism does resemble even slightly Western liberal, civil democratic ideals. Refering again to a PBS Frontline special shown in 2006, in Turkey the sermons delivered by imams and mullahs from their pulpits in mosques are only delivered after approval by the government. FWIW, I think this practice has been in place for many, many years.

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