Ahira's Hangar

News just said that the weapons inspector have been asked 2 leave Iraq 2day! And that a descision on war could b hours away!!! Please, Please DON'T DO THIS...I have a terrible feeling that a series of horrible events r about 2 happen if the US attacks--and not just in Iraq!!! STOP! STOP b4 it's 2 late! And now Danlo looked in that direction, too. He remembered that snowy owls mate in the darkest part of deep winter, and so along with this beautiful white bird perched in a tree a hundred feet away, he turned to face the sea as he watched and waited.

Ahira, Ahira, he called out silently to the sky. Ahira, Ahira<i></i>

yes and Australia has expelled its Iraqi ambassadors .. all 5 of them ..

nice eh??

ok you Iraqi guys .. not only have we treated you like crap in the last few months levelling all manner of insults against you .. but now .. hey .. have 5 days to go back to Iraq so we can bomb the crap of you too!!



Well thats that .. no good worrying about that now eh? 'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!

'health and healing<i></i>

there's no stopping now .. the US has been committed to this course of action even before they put forward UN resolution 1441 ..

and what kills is .. that public opinion didnt count for anything .. not here .. not anywhere ..

.. it looms a tragedy of unknown proportions .. nothing is ever certain in war ..

the US will begin its first strike .. aptly named 'Shock and Awe' ..

whats really going on here?? what is the real intent of the Bush administration? is it the disarmament of Iraq?? neutralising a potential threat? how many potential threats are there out there??

millions .. and whats worse is there are millions of individual threats which have proven to be far more lethal than any possible threat of a nation state ..

I feel sooo deeply saddened by the events of the past few days .. sooo critically sad .. I feel despair .. overwhelmed with grief .. 'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!

'health and healing<i></i>

I must admit, the Bush administration hasn't really made it clear what they're trying to do in Iraq...here's how I see it.

1-The Iraqi state, under Saddam Hussein, is a threat to the US, and the region.
2-Saddam and his regime MAY be associated with al-Qaeda, and may provide weapons of mass destruction to them.
3- To form a bastion of democracy, and ally for that matter, in the Middle-East. |

Bush, in his speech last night, was trying to trigger a coup in the Iraqi army, making it less bloody. Further up, and further in! <i></i>

@ this point Saddam has about 25 hours left, Don't do it! Don't b discouraged Sky...hang @ the Hangar...go 2 the Fravashi Disrtict and pray...something And now Danlo looked in that direction, too. He remembered that snowy owls mate in the darkest part of deep winter, and so along with this beautiful white bird perched in a tree a hundred feet away, he turned to face the sea as he watched and waited.

Ahira, Ahira, he called out silently to the sky. Ahira, Ahira<i></i>

I understand and respect your concerns, but I believe that we shouldn't be discouraged by this war. No sane person enjoys war, but sometimes the alternative is worse. By most indications, the Iraqi people are eager for us to liberate them from the hell of Saddam's brutal regime. If they want to be free, and they want us to free them, then I see nothing immoral with it. Saddam's regime is illegitimate, based on terror, and came to power illegally. While we can't be the policemen of the world, we also shouldn't turn our backs on people who need our help.

The Iraqi people deserve the opportunity to live without fear of an oppressive, brutal dictator as much as any of us in the West do. There is no difference.

I guess what I'm saying is: be of good cheer. The evil men will lose, the Iraqis will be free, and there will be much celebrating in Bagdad. A simplistic outlook, perhaps, but sometimes simple is good. <i></i>

it is xtremely hard 4 me 2 live while people r dying.

I had 2 break up 2 fights in my neighborhood this weekend and straighten out the cops on the situations. I had neighbors, not just anti/pro protestors threatening ea. other--that was little 2 real 4 me. I don't think any of this is simple at all--we have a facist arrogant gov't that's brainwashing us through the media, compromising our freedoms, ruining the economy and pissing off the world towards us...whether we attack Iraq or not--it's all going 2 come home 2 the US and all we need is an x-factor 2 set us all @ each other's throats..wrong counrty gets involved here...act of terrorism there. On one hand they say that there is no unrest in America and that 68% of the pop. support the war, but they r lying (heavily) on both accounts.

Well I guess it is simple--u tip-toe an xtremly fine gaunlet: u get him out and stabilize the country--u make it democratic, or whatever u do. No terrorists attacks occur while this is going on, the world doesn't get pissed off, every county in the mid-east region is fat and sassy, even Yemen and Pakistan. No single country goes off it's nut, like N. Korea, Isreal, Syria or Pakistan. Saudi Arabia doesn't fo anything weird. There r 2 many "what ifs" and THEN u have 2 keep that balancing act up 4 @ least a year's work of occupation and recovery (2 the tune of at least $95 billion $s of our taxes). We're supposed 2 create jobs in the US out of that?

As Covenant says, "...that's to easy." It's 2 good 2 b true--the mid-east is notoriously crazy. Something's going 2 go wrong somewhere--some little trigger is going 2 kill alot of innocent people. In any case the US is going 2 emerge a very ugly and internally hate-filled country... And now Danlo looked in that direction, too. He remembered that snowy owls mate in the darkest part of deep winter, and so along with this beautiful white bird perched in a tree a hundred feet away, he turned to face the sea as he watched and waited.

Ahira, Ahira, he called out silently to the sky. Ahira, Ahira<i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 3/19/03 2:50:10 pm
</i>

Since I work in a veteran's hospital, I get to see some of the after affects of war on a daily basis, as I work with men and women who have been maimed physically or mentally or in their very souls from their experiences. You would think humans could come up with better ways of solving their differences after all of these millenia of suffering...
Just my two cents... Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell<i></i>

I agree duchess .. you would think we could resolve disputes in a better fashion..

and what you say is vital .. Warfare has changed since the WW2 and the Korean War .. but not so much that people dont come home from military engagements not wounded, maimed and some just dont come home at all still.

When you have a policy of force .. it is almost always met with resistance. Casualties are an inevitability .. on both sides of war ..

Sure we have smart weapons .. but ultimately ground cannot be won or secured without a ground force. Engagements on the ground cannot be completely avoided.

This is the paradox of the adoption of 'force' for the purpose of resolving conflict ..

I agree with what danlo has said .. and danlo .. I heard on the teev that it was reported that this first offensive alone has cost the US, in the vicinity of US $75 billion already!

and thats before occupation and rebuiding ..

But I guess its uncharitable to quibble about money when higher principles are at play .. and hopefully 'liberating Iraq' including ofcourse the Hussein assasination .. is really what the Iraqi people do want .. and that they will truly appreciate extreme cost to the US-coalition powers for doing so.

And its interesting to note that .. a military spokesman commented a few days ago .. about the assasination of a national leader is a legitimate act during warfare .. that otherwise is not! So even though the US has made the attempt at time prior .. at least when they do it this time .. it will be legitimised by the existence of WAR!

Anyway .. assasinations aside .. it still remains unconfirmed whether they have or have not succeeded in this endeavour.

I agree danlo that even though the media and the Bush administration would have us believe that this is a noble cause .. and it may be .. I am not entirely convinced.

I agree with Mhoram .. that it would have helped if the US had made its case clear .. and it never did .. not to the international community and not to the UN ..

I have seen this war heralded as the 'WAr on Terror' .. and spoken of in conjunction with 9/11 and the need to safeguard the US from a repeat of this heinous terrorist act .. and still no direct link or evidence has been provided to ever link Hussein with Bin Laden .. and never with 9/11.

Iraq is a rogue state that is not questioned .. and Hussein a despot leader of an oppressive regime .. one of many ..

It was also claimed this war is necessary for the forceful disarmament of Iraq .. a process which was without warfare well in hand .. according to Blix and El BArrade .. the UN inspectors [who I trust to know] .. but however, not sufficiently so to satsify the Bush administration.

It is also claimed the intent of this aggression is for the purpose of Liberating Iraq! .. but it is also not clear that the Iraqi populus view the US as a liberating force and not just as foreign invaders with a hidden agenda of not only occupation but also of Iraqi resource control.

The US has paraded a handful of dissenters and claim to have many more happy gleeful surrendered Iraqi soldiers. However .. it has also been counter-claimed that these dissenters are more than likely conscripts who didnt want to be in the army anyway ..

It is to be expected however .. that under such a regime that there will be some who will embrace the US liberators in hopes of a better existence .. but it isnt overwhelmingly the case at the moment ..

Iraq is a nation of about 6-7 million strong .. one would expect more than a handful of disserters and refugees .. yet so far we havent seen a mass exodus from the cities .. or even from the military .. as was predicted prior to the beginning of the Iraqi engagement.

Ofcourse it must be borne in mind that .. the army may well have the state under some sort of lock-down .. but even that hasnt been explained by those refugees that have made their way to the border.

So it all still remains a mystery ..

As does so many things the US admin and media have been saying ..
'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!

'health and healing<i></i>

This is getting 2 real...2 many people r dying all of a sudden--it's going 2 get worse not better...and even if they can stabilize things real quick the Turks and Jordanians r freaking--Iran is calling 4 Jihad, China's getting really jittery--and thats freaky! (And the Russians fear this war could destablize a number of it's independant states. But I tought this was a war 2 "stabilize the area..I'm 2 confused) And now Danlo looked in that direction, too. He remembered that snowy owls mate in the darkest part of deep winter, and so along with this beautiful white bird perched in a tree a hundred feet away, he turned to face the sea as he watched and waited.

Ahira, Ahira, he called out silently to the sky. Ahira, Ahira<i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 3/24/03 6:31:15 pm
</i>

its the kurds and the turks who I am worried about .. there is and has always been real instability in that region .. and war is not going to bring stability! Particularly war lead by the infidel west ..

Syria is pissed now .. [moreso even] .. that a bus carrying civillians was hit by a US missile .. they dont see the US as liberators .. and this was the response of the Iraqi surivors on the bus escaping Iraq to Syria to flee the foreign invaders who target civillians.

You see these Iraqi saw the US-UK as invaders they dont see them as liberators .. they arent getting it that teh US is their to liberate them and help them .. most dont read english .. dont have satellite telly .. arent up to speed with the western view point. But are fully up to speed with the arab view point .. and they are not welcoming of this 'invasion' as it is seen ..

maybe not by all .. but definitely by some. It remains to be seen what the majority think .. 'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!

'health and healing<i></i>

It's amusing how many of these threads you see without replys after the conflict ended, predictions of amazing apocolyptic death and carnage, i'd just like to see one of the posters come back on and say: "well i was pretty (censored) wrong, it was all over in about 2 weeks with bugger all coalition casualties, and the iraqis were dancing in the streets, don't i feel stupid" <i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 6/25/03 3:15 pm
</i>

It ain't over yet. In fact it's just beginning. It's a debate not a personality contest... And now Danlo looked in that direction, too. He remembered that snowy owls mate in the darkest part of deep winter, and so along with this beautiful white bird perched in a tree a hundred feet away, he turned to face the sea as he watched and waited.

Ahira, Ahira, he called out silently to the sky. Ahira, Ahira<i></i>

: Well said, General! Further up, and further in!

Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage!- The Smashing Pumpkins <i></i>

i dont think that is well said at all General

danlo is correct .. this conflict is not over and coalition casualties continue .. even after your citing of 2 weeks .. in another forum this debate continues quite healthily ..

Iraq is not stabilised and far from being at peace .. the infrastructure is still in turmoil and there is still signifant resistance to the US/UK coalition presence in Iraq ..

The region itself has not seen the US lead aggression against Iraq in the light the US hoped for .. yet they are frightened .. and this fear has motivated some towards change of political systems where before no change may have been imminent ..

So long as the coalition forces on the ground keep coming home in body bags .. this mess is not going away ..

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!

'health and healing<i></i>