Ahira's Hangar

Representative Ellison from Minnesota wants to sworn into office by placing his hand on a Koran. Many, many of the right wing pundits have pontificated that this is so inappropriate, that the Congressional oath should only be taken when one places their hand on a Christian Bible. However, let me direct our attention to Article VI of the Constitution in its last clause concludes Quote:but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. Let me use a historical example of a religious test, in the 1850s a member of the Rothschilds was elected to the British House of Commons as member from the City of London. When he came to the swearing in ceremony he requested a Bible rather than a New Testament for his oath of office, and by refusing to be administered the oath while holding a New Testment he was refused his seat.

To look at American history, AFAIK Herbert Hoover never actually swore an oath of office when he became POTUS, since as a Quaker his religious beliefs prohibit the swearing of an oath. According to information I've heard today Hoover made a solemn affirmation to fulfill his responsibilities of office, and I do not know if his affirmation was made while holding a Bible or not. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Buffy fans Chicago
my livej<i></i>

A nice precedent, and an interesting story. Of course, there is no way the government would insist on a bible or anything else, so I think it's really a non-issue except to throw into relief those who are thinking along those type of lines.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>

If this man wants to swear on oath on the holy book of his faith rather than a Christian Bible, I have absolutely no problem with it. Contrary to what far right wingers imagine, this is a country of many religions and many faiths (including agnosticism and athiets) and people should be free to follow the religious customs they believe in, provided that others are not hurt by them.

My personal wish is that no holy books be mixed in with government service at all, and that if officials wish to swear on them that it take place in a ceremony at the place of worship at their choice rather than in a government place and ceremony, but I realize that there is a long standing tradition of this sort of thing for electe officials. And I suppose that it is a free speech and freedom of religion issue, and should probably continue on those grounds. However - Chrisitans should hardly be allowed a monopoly on the holy books used in this sort of thing.

We civilian government ermployees swear an oath along the lines of good service in our personnel offices when we take our jobs, and religion is not involved in that.

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Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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I have no problem with it either, however-the system does... *****
Before, you are wise; after, you are wise. In between you are otherwise.
Fravashi saying (from the formularies of Osho the Fool) <i></i>

Say, Duchess is right...why is a holy book required for a secular office? Should swear on the constitution like somebody here or on the Watch said.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>

www.opm.gov/constitution_initiative/oath.asp

Here is what I and others of my federal employee brethren swore when we took our jobs. God is mentioned in the oath, but it does not specify which God/dess of which religion. I suppose it would even include Satan if that is the being you swear by. I do not know if there is an alternate oath for athiests - but I do work with an athiest or two and if I get a chance and actually remember to ask about it, I will.

Personally I would be more comfortable if God were taklen out of the oath, and holy books are not a part of it for elected officials. It would be more appropriate to swear by the Constitution - even more specifically perhaps the Bill of Rights in the Constitution, as federal employees do supposedly answer to the citizens. <i></i>

Now we all know about the swearing in of Elected House of Representatives than we knew there was to know.

According to the more recent information I've heard, the newly elected Representatives are sworn in en masse on the chamber's floor by Speaker of the previous congressional term. AFAIK, the oath includes an affirmation to 'God'. The photos one often sees where the individual Congressperson is shown with their hand on a Bible and such, are just what the second word of the sentence says 'photo ops', specially staged for home town newspapers and other publicity. Rep. Ellison wants to stage his photo op holding a Koran, this is how the whole incident boils down to me. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Buffy fans Chicago
my livej<i></i>

Haha, you know, you're almost certainly right.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>

The Oath of Enlistment has two optional parts. "I [state your name] do (solemnly swear/do solemnly affirm)... so (help me/help me God)." I always get funny looks when I choose the latter option. In fact, the officer wrangled into swearing me into the reserves didn't even mention the alternate option and did a double take when I said it. ________________
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within my shadow. Change is coming. Now is my time. Listen to my muscle memory. Contemplate what I've been clinging to. -Tool, "Forty-Six & Two" <i></i>

Good on you, Syl! Wish I could have seen his face. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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