Ahira's Hangar

This is about two months old and it's a copy of an entry on my livejournal. If you don't know who Christopher Hitchens is well this discussion will probably have no meaning.

On Friday August 25, on Bill Maher's new HBO show, Christopher Hitchens was guest along with Max Clelland and a fellow who wrote a book about the continuing war between the Shi'i and the Sunni, for primacy in the Moslem world. I've discovered that Hitchens has become the 21st century's William F. Buckley (a comparison he'd loathe). As Buckley was liberal's favorite conservative in the 1970s, so Hitchens has become the neo-con's favorite liberal. Hitchens rarely engaged with Clelland, the book guy nor Maher, and anytime he'd make a positive comment about the Bushies and the war in Iraq he'd be booed and jeered by Maher's audience (like duh!, he mistakenly thought Maher's studio audience was drawn from the membership of Young Republican's org.) and his response was flipping the bird to the audience and telling them to 'f*** off'. IMO, Hitchens wants to prove he still has an edgy style; OTOH, one could say he's become the talking head equivalent to Cartman. But a telling moment came when Maher brought up the topic of the Bush's political machine's habit of smearing anyone opposed to, or questioning of, their policy in conducting the Iraq war as a treasonous unpatriotic coward (example, Rep. Jack Murtha), Hitchens's immediate knee jerk response was "They never do that", oops now he stepped into it, former Sen. Clelland counters with 'that's exactly what they do and they did it to me'. Hitchens then tried to change the subject to how various groups have portrayed (examples moveon.org and the like) the Bushies as jack booted stormtroopers and brown shirts or as Mussolini or Hitler. So the discussion devolved to a school yard taunt of 'you do it too'.

AFAIK, this was the beginning of Mahers new series of shows on HBO, which besides the above discussed panel, had an interview with Elvis Costello. I'd give it a solid B; however Hitchens gets a C- or D+. Added, Hitchen's grade is based on his childish behavior and his inability to take his engagement with Clelland beyond the level of 'you do it to taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Buffy fans Chicago
my livej<i>Edited by: taraswizard at: 11/1/06 9:07 pm
</i>

Funny, I saw that one too, and all it did was reinforce how much I dislike Maher and his audience. Hitchens attempted to be civil, but Maher kept egging the audience on. I agree that Hitchens went too far, but Maher's pathetic attempts to be less than completely biased have failed yet again.

I can't understand why any self-respecting conservative, much less anyone else would appear on his farce of a show.

But that's just me.

<i></i>

Couple of points.

First Hitchens is not necessarily a person of civil discourse, his stock in trade is extremely vigorous, lively and intelligent discussion; however, he'll never back down from getting in someone's face, if they disagree with him and they're holding some position he believes is vile, dangerous or wrong. Two examples, I do not believe one would characterize the person who has called Mother Teresa a "dangerous, heartless, religious fanatic", or who has called Henry Kissinger 'one of the most dangerous war criminal who ever lived' is anyone interested in civil discourse. (FWIW, one might agree with his conclusions regarding Kissinger, but I know you probably did not derive that conclusion from the same premises Mr. Hitchens uses). Hitchens has been a guest of Maher's show before, probably going back to the ABC version.

Christopher Hitchens is not now, regardless of his new hawkishness on the Mid-East, nor ever was before a conservative (one needs to know that he wrote for The Nation for over twenty years). Between 1993 and 2000, he was a vigorous critic of Bill Clinton's policies; however, his criticism and prejuidice of Clinton was based on Hitchens's evaluation that Bill was a political moderate and centrist trying to make everyone believe he was a progressive and liberal.

Maher's show is not balanced, but are Hannity's or O'Reilly's shows on Fox? But that's off topic.

Since the show discussed above Maher has had as guests Andrew Sullivan (who's mentioned in another thread), David Kuo and Tracy Todd Whitman, but I have to presume you might not call all those conservatives. YMMV taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Buffy fans Chicago
my livej<i>Edited by: taraswizard at: 11/1/06 9:52 pm
</i>

This discussion is meaningless to me. (I have no idea who those people are.

However, I do have immediate sympathy for anybody with the guts to call Mother Theresa a "dangerous, heartless, religious fanatic."

Anybody know why he called her that?

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>

Avatar, a little OT to this conversation, but I know well why he called Mother Teresa that; BTW, his statements regarding the nun from Albania have brought him the most infamy.

Mr. Hitchens evaluation really has two cornerstones. Several years ago he toured the Mission facilities in Mumbai and as he watched people being taken in and ministered to he asked 'That's all you do? you're not doing anything to systemically aleviate these peoples desparate circumstances?' and the reply was 'We are not these peoples social workers, this is what we do!' And the mission continued to reject any type of artificial birth control, which in Hitchens's opinion would do much to help the poor of India's situation.

Next during the Balkan crisis, Mother Teresa met with most of the leaders including IIRC, Tudjman of Croatia, and Milosovic of Serbia. After the meetings Mother Teresa said she prayed with these leaders and everything would be fine 'they're good men'. These men presided over some of the most horrorific and barbaric acts of 'ethnic cleansing' ever witnessed. So, everything was not fine they were not 'good men'. These two points form the fundamentals of Christopher Hitchens evalution of Mother Teresa. taraswizard
Allan Rosewarne N9SQT/WDX6HQV
Chicago area
W/T forever, always
Buffy fans Chicago
my livej<i></i>

Fascinating. Thanks Taras.

Seems like a good point, although perhaps the characterisation was a little harsh.

Amusing perhaps to think that by merely caring for the poor, that type of charity merely insures that there will always be poor.

Still, didn't the whole Balkan crisis turn out all right? (Or was the war only after she prayed with them? )

I'm curious...what does everybody think about it? *ehoes*

Maybe we'll split this.

(Anyway, if you hung around the 'Tank at the Watch more, you'd know that the idea of "on-topic" is a nebulous one to me. )

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>