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 Post subject: Dune Chapter 15
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:59 am 
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The UnTitled
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Quote:My father, the Padishah Emperor, took me by the hand one day and I sensed in the ways that my mother had taught me that he was disturbed. He led me down the Hall of Portraits to the ego-likeness of the Duke Leto Atreides. I marked the strong resemblance between them – my father and this man in the portrait – both with thin, elegant faces, and sharp features dominated by cold eyes. ‘Princess-daughter,’ my father said, ‘I would that you had been older when it came time for this man to choose a woman.’ My father was 71 at the time, and I was but 14, yet I remember deducing in that instant that my father secretly wished the Duke had been his son, and disliked the political necessities that made them enemies. – ‘In My Father’s House’ by the Princess Irulan.

A revealing early look at the Emperor…I wonder why, having this wish, the Emperor did not simply manipulate events and politics to bring him out on the side of the Duke?

And what do you think an ego-likeness is? Something more than merely a painting or a hologram I’m sure. Something which, in some way, showed perhaps the essential personality of the subject?

This chapter starts off from Kynes’ point of view, an interesting one indeed. We learn immediately that Kynes is meant to betray the Atreides…and because we know that Kynes is the Emperor’s man, his Judge of the Change, we must know that it is the Emperor himself who conspires for Atreides downfall.

Yet Kynes is shaken…He is thinking of how precisely Paul fits the prophecy that he, as a scientist, probably largely discounted. He thinks of Paul’s ‘questing eyes” and reserved candour.

Questing eyes? Perhaps a description more precise to the mystic-inclined Fremen, but a lovely turn of phrase nonetheless.

Immediately we learn that the prophecy itself is imprecise…and we know that it is more Missionaria Protectiva cant. He meets the Atreides midmorning, and his first thoughts are uncharitable ones. First the many guards, obviously not attuned to the Planet, then the Duke…equally obviously a stranger by his unfamiliarity with the clothing…and Paul, surprisingly apparently familiar with it. He marks his air of command, and thinks,

Quote:The Mahdi will be aware of things others cannot see.

But his lessons in etiquette rankled, and he knew what the Atreides wanted…the testing stations that, used properly, could hasten his dream for Dune. And knowing that they must have learned of them from Idaho, he promises to have Idaho’s hent sent to the Duke by Stilgar.

Who is this imperial planetologist? That he can think so casually of ordering the death of Stilgars guest? Why does he think he will be obeyed?

And here, as the group meets him and they discuss titles, it always occurs to me with amusement that “ecologist” is considered by Kynes to be a new title. How unimaginably old is this universe where a relatively new title for us is so old that it has become new again?

Introductions done, Paul asks an interesting question…is Kynes a Fremen? He answers by not answering though, saying he is accepted in sietch and village. But Paul is struck most by Kynes’ air of command…as though he were royalty.

Kynes adjusts Leto’s stillsuit after a brief moment of indecision bout allowing him into his shield space, explaining the suit as he goes. (The suit is a marvel of engineering, all body moisture and waste is recycled and reclaimed. No doubt thought of drinking your own recycled urine and faeces is unpleasant, but not as unpleasant as dying of thirst in the desert. )

Along the way, he explains the harsh reality of Arrakis…there are no likelihoods…only possibilities. Anything that can possibly happen will happen. And as Leto thanks Kynes for the suits, Paul quotes the O.C Bible…a lovely quote which I’ve often…well…quoted, but never with that effect.

Quote:“The gift is the blessing of the giver.” The words rang out over-loud in the still air. The Fremen escort Kynes had left in the shade of the administration building leaped up from their squatting repose, muttering in open agitation. One cried out: “Lisan al-Gaib!”
Kynes whirled, gave a curt chopping signal with his hand, waved the guard away. They fell back, grumbling among themselves, trailed around the edge of the building.
“Most interesting,” Leto said.
Kynes passed a hard glare over the Duke and Paul, said: “Most of the desert natives here are a superstitious lot. Pay no attention to the, they mean no harm. But he thought of the words of the legend: ‘They will greet you with holy words, and your gifts will be a blessing.’

A brief diversion here…the legend obviously is fairly imprecise…those words could have been interpreted to fit many possibilities, as was no doubt the case. So was the prophecy real? Was Paul really the prophesied one? Or could he have been any child of a Bene Gesserit?

I can never decide.

Anyway, Kynes proceeds to check Paul’s suit, amazed at the fact that it needs no adjusting…Paul, as predicted, knows their ways as if born to them. Then, escort in tow, the enter the thopters and Leto takes off, heading over the shield wall at Kynes’ direction.

On the way, they discuss many things, each a small revelation to us of the Imperium, the Harkonnen, and the Atreides. I’ve always loved the ease with which the Duke sympathises with Kynes’ predicament…

Quote:I detect a sour note in your voice sir. We’ve waded in here with our mob of tame killers, eh? And we expect you to realise immediately that we’re different from the Harkonnen.

He knows what it was like. He understands. Perhaps better than anybody else…Idaho, Halleck, Paul. He knows that he is really not that much different from the Harkonnen, from the Emperor, or any other great house. He has a curious humility about him I think. A humility that Paul would have done well to learn if he’d had the chance.

One other interesting thing I’d like to mention about this ride…speaking of the testing stations, in the face of Kynes’ obduracy, the Duke asks him how Dune could become a paradise without money, and Kynes snaps back, “what good is money if it won’t buy you the services that you need?”

The Duke is interested…but takes it no further then, or ever again. But what did Kynes mean? That even money would not buy control of Arrakis? Or that there were services they needed that they could not buy? Was the Dukes interest because he thought it betrayed some need that would give him leverage? We can only speculate.

We learn much of the ecology and dangers of Arrakis on the trip, before finally coming to the factory that is mining a rich spice bed. But as they arrive, the Duke spots wormsign and warns the crawler. Hallek, displaying yet another of his many talents, orders the bonus granted to the spotter to be shared among the crew in the Duke’s name, but the carryall meant to evacuate the factory has been forced down by treachery, and certain death faces the crew.

Here, the Duke displays yet another quality that his son would have done better to remember. One that firmly sets Kynes’ sympathies with him I think. Issuing swift orders, the Duke makes ready to evacuate every man aboard the crawler, consigning who knows how much spice to the worms maw. Throwing out shield generators to take even those who should not have been able to fit.

Taking off, they witness the taking of the crawler by a worm…an immense worm out of the deep desert, big enough to swallow the entire factory whole, and Kynes’ mutters a benediction that makes one of the new passengers mutter, “Liet.”

As they fly away from the crawler, Paul spies two men rising from the sand below, from right beside where the worm had surfaced, and glide away over the desert.

The crewmen claim they were merely men of the village, along for the ride and aware of the risk. But Paul knows that they are Fremen. True Fremen, and no wonder the crewmen displayed no concern…

Quote:Who else would be so sure on the sand? Who else could be left out of your worries as a matter of course – because they are in no danger? They know how to live here! They know how to outwit the worm!

The men and Kynes dismiss his claim but he recognises that they are lying. And Kynes thinks,

Quote:The Lisan al-Gaib shall see through all subterfuge.

That marvellous passage where we first get a hint of the true nature of the Fremen never ceases to enthral me. So much more than the rag-tag bands they appear to be. These are the possessors of the real Desert Power. The true masters of Dune, no matter who ruled the fief.

And Kynes was troubled by what he had observed here.

Quote:This Duke was concerned more over the men than he was over the spice. He risked his own life, and that of his son to save the men. He passed off the loss of a spice crawler with a gesture. The threat to men’s lives had him in a rage. A leader such as that would command fanatic loyalty. He would be difficult to defeat.

The nobility of the Atreides wins them another ally. Leto’s uncharacteristic (for the time (or any time) ) decency and respect for human life, (or his unerring talent for bravura?) had turned Kynes from a seriously potential enemy, not to mention betrayer, into a grudging admirer.

Quote:Against his own will, and all previous judgement, Kynes admitted to himself: ‘I like this Duke.’

--Avatar ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Dune Chapter 15
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:39 am
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Yes, A key pivotal chapter, this one. It establishes the legend of the Mahdi and shows Liet-Kynes that Paul may indeed be the "voice from the outer world". Also, it would indeed seem strange that someone who would not know the intricacies of a PROPERLY adjusted still-suit to have put it on correctly, deep desert style at that. This chapter also shows more of Paul's latent power of truth sense and seemingly throws Liet for a bit of a loop, Liet recovers quickly from the initial shock rather quickly. Further showing his inate abilty to command. Silencing those who called out "Mahdi!", the mere idea that someone could be face to face with one's prohpesied Messiah would be rather unnerving. Liet handles the shock quite well.

Nice synopsis, Avatar!! <i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Dune Chapter 15
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:13 am 
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The UnTitled
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Thanks.

As the Shadout Mapes said earlier to Jessica, when you have lived with prophecy for so long, the moment of fulfillment can be a shock...

Liet recovers well, but I'll bet he wishes nobody else had been along to hear.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>


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 Post subject: dune chapter 15
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:02 pm 
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Lady Scryer
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I have always loved this chapter. Whether genuine concern for human life or making the most of a chance for good publicity - the Duke is just really really cool here. Leto is exactly what a leader should be.

Our first encounter with a sandworm. Our first glimpse of Fremen in their natural habitat. More hints of the future importance of Paul to the Fremen.

Good stuff! <i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: dune chapter 15
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:28 am 
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The UnTitled
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Yeah, as I said, one of my favourites. And certainly agree about the astuteness and "nobility" of Leto here. I always remember this chapter as poignant counter-point to the one much later on, where Gurney says to him, "Your father would have cared more for the men."

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: dune chapter 15
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:26 am 
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Master Pilot
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Quote:A revealing early look at the Emperor…I wonder why, having this wish, the Emperor did not simply manipulate events and politics to bring him out on the side of the Duke?
You know, that is a good question. You'd think he, being the most powerful person in the, uh, known universe, would have some room to maneuver.

Quote:And what do you think an ego-likeness is? Something more than merely a painting or a hologram I’m sure. Something which, in some way, showed perhaps the essential personality of the subject?
I think this is another instance where Herbert could have easily fallen into technobabble speak when describing science and technology in a distant future. Instead, he uses familiar words - "ego-likeness" - that nicely convey something which, as you suggest, is probably more advanced than any kind of photographic/holographic medium we have today. It's another little detail that gets across the sense of a far future society that seems both familiar and alien, very ancient and yet super advanced. Staring into my own "ego-likeness" would probably freak me out!

Quote:Yet Kynes is shaken…He is thinking of how precisely Paul fits the prophecy that he, as a scientist, probably largely discounted.
Now isn't this an interesting scenario? A scientist - ostensibly trained to reject superstitious beliefs - who is confronted by another individual that would seem to be an in-the-flesh fulfillment of those beliefs. How does one reconcile science with the occult? I was going to say, "only in fiction" -- but then I recalled that in medieval times, occult ideas were freely mixed in with scientific analysis. Keynes meeting Paul represents something more profound: it would be like scientists in the real world coming face to face with Jesus performing miracles. Some scientists would have no trouble accepting a Messiah in their midst, while others would likely balk. The way around that dilemma is to take a pragmatic view, it seems: Keynes might sense the messianic potential in Paul, but he's still taking a wait-and-see attitude.




<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: dune chapter 15
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:11 am 
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The UnTitled
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Good post MW.

I suppose part of it was that the Emperor isn't all that powerful...I don't know if I'd go so far as to call him a puppet, but between the BG, who aided his ascension in return for his daughters, Choam, the Landsraat, his choices may have devolved to the lesser of evils. Maybe.

Interesting point about the ego-likeness. I must say I've never seen it as a...a technique. : I just don't read that way I guess...I never really think, "what is he trying to achieve by writing it this way?"

Probably just lazy. But yes, you're absolutely right...it does give the oddly familiar yet totally different sense of this ancient future empire quite subtly. In fact, there isn't much if any "technospeak" in this book, now that I come to think of it. I'm always left with a distinct sense of "how does it work. Like the ornithopters...wtf? :

As for Kynes, I tend to agree too...pragmatism is a very Fremen trait.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>


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