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 Post subject: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:59 am 
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Oh, well we could go anywhere with this, right? BUT you can't avoid it as it does play a crucial role in the masterpiece and the series. From Wikipedia~

Quote:Melange is the name of the fictional spice that is central to the Dune series of science fiction novels by Frank Herbert.
The word already existed in English. It means a mixture, used to refer to spices or similar but also to various mixed cotton or wool fabrics. It is derived from the identical French môVnge from mꬥr (mix).

In Dune, there is only one source of the spice Melange, the planet Arrakis (colloquially known as 'Dune'). Melange is a geriatric drug that gives the imbiber longer life, greater vitality, heightened awareness, and some measure of prescience, depending upon the dosage and the consumer's biological makeup.

Yet Melange is truly a drug: it is physically addictive (as evidenced by the total blue in blue eyes of the spice addict), and stopping its consumption causes death after a painful period of withdrawal. Due to its rarity, the group controlling spice production on Dune controls the fate of the universe.

The steersmen of the Spacing Guild take Melange for the heightened awareness and the prescient ability to see safe paths through space, allowing them to navigate the gigantic Guild Heighliners between planets. They exist literally within a cloud of Melange in a tank, and the extended exposure to it warps their bodies.

The Bene Gesserit use the spice for the ritual known as the Spice Agony, an ordeal in which an acolyte takes a massive overdose and confronts her inner self and the selves of all her female ancestors. If she masters the confrontation, she emerges as a Reverend Mother, a Bene Gesserit of terrifying abilities, fully in command of her Other Memories (the collective egos of her female ancestors.)

The spice is the product of sandwormss. Collecting it is hazardous in the extreme, since any activity on the desert surface of Dune attracts the worms, which are extremely large and dangerous. Thus, the mining operation is essentially vacumning it off the surface until a worm comes, when a carryall will lift the mining vehicle to safety. The Fremen, who have learned to co-exist with the sandworms in the desert, also harvest the spice manually.

Spice is in general use all over the universe as a sign of wealth. To ingest it is the ultimate sign of conspicuous
consumption. *****
Before, you are wise; after, you are wise. In between you are otherwise.
Fravashi saying (from the formularies of Osho the Fool) <i>Edited by: danlo60 at: 8/12/06 9:32 am
</i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:39 am 
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The UnTitled
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History and literature are full of examples of psychoactive sunstances, or substances which enhance some ability or another.

Melange seems to be both in a sense. Critical in allowing the Guild to send the great highliners through space safely, and thus indispensible for any meaningful kind of interstellar travel in a universe which has no faster than light technology, it is control of the spice in the end that gives the Atreides dominance.

Spoiler

Spoiler

(Seen Duchess do this. )

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Of course, in the unimaginably distant future, during/after the reign of Leto II, the God Emperor, the Bene Tleilax learn how to make it in their tanks, eliminating the monopoly he held.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:21 am 
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Probably the closest thing to spice in our world today would be crude oil. Not taken as a drug, but much of modern technology and transportation depends on it in one form or another. He who would control the world's economy would begin with a monopoly on oil.

And the desert world of Arrakis and the deserts of the Middle East, where so much oil comes from, would have fascinating comparisons and contrasts.

The reason I do the spoiler thing like that is I have never been able to figure out how to do the spoilers here. Apparently you can make the type the same color as the background so it does not show unless it is highlighted, but I always have trouble figuring out which color of type to use. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:30 am 
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*nods head* Yeah, I saw (Taras I think) make that same comparison over at the Watch...first time I'd ever thought of it, and staring me in the face with all the quasi-Islamic/Arabic references in Dune.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:55 pm 
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Supposedly the Legends of Dune prequel series gets into how the Fremen come to live on Dune and a lot of their history. Those books are in my TBR pile... It would be interesting to see if the Fremen do have roots in Bedouin/Arabic tribes.



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Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:45 am 
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Well, I don't think there's much doubt of that really.

What always surprises me is the fairly clear-cut lines of descent. It suggests a very homogenous type of grouping, for example, all the Muslims (or Bedouin say), leaving earth and staying together, etc etc.

Could suggest something interesting about the state of earth when it all began.

How far in the future is Dune supposed to be set? Do we know?

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:07 am 
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I would think thousands of years for Dune...not sure about the Legends prequels, but it would not surprise me if they were set hundreds, if not thousands, of years before that. How much time in our future until those three books, I could not even guess.

How did they navigate in the star ways before they found melange, anyway? ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:15 am 
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Looking at the preface to The Butlerian Jihad, it is said that the founding of the Empire following the Battle of Corrin took place 10,000 years before the overthrow of Shaddam by Paul Atreides.

So - House of Corrin ruled the Glaxy for about 10,000 years.

House Atreides under Paul, Alia, and Leto II - another 10,000 years.

I'm not sure how much time takes place between Leto II and the events of Heretics & Chapterhouse?

Nor am I sure of how much time goes by between our present and the Butlerian Jihad? ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:20 am 
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Aah, yes, I remember Shaddam's dates as being 10,4?? ish after the founding of the empire.

I'll have to check to see the time lapse between God Emperor and Heretics, but off the top of my head, I think it's another 2 or 3,000 years. (But I could be wrong about that.)

Pretty astounding scope.

And I reckon we can safely guess at at least a couple of thousand before the Butlerian Jihad.

Nobody can say the story isn't ambitious...

--A

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A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:26 am 
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In the preface and first chapter it says that humans already had a star empire, which was taken over by their thinking machines, which in turn ruled the galaxy for a thousand years.

So I would think thousands of years from now until the Butlerian Jihad? ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:28 am 
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Sounds reasonable. Hell, if there was already an empire, it might be as many as 10,000 years between now and the Jihad. wow.

(Now I'm really going to be keeping an eye out for the prequels. Probably a bit soon to hope to see them in the 2nd hand shops though. )

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i>Edited by: Avatar  at: 8/14/06 10:29 pm
</i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:36 am 
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The Dune Houses trilogy of prequels has been out for a few years now, though the Dune Legends trilogy is more recent. I would think you might have some decent luck with the Dune Houses books. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:45 am 
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Thanks. Will definitely be looking for them.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:58 pm 
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spacemonkey! *****
Before, you are wise; after, you are wise. In between you are otherwise.
Fravashi saying (from the formularies of Osho the Fool) <i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: The Spice Melange
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:55 am 
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I agree with duchess: oil is today's melange. Just as the spice flows from the deserts of Arrakis, so the oil flows from the deserts of the Arab states - in both cases to feed the insatiable appetites of foreign imperial powers.

Now all this talk of Islamic references in Dune - jihad specifically - has made me think of another, and maybe more uncomfortable parallel: who might be the Maud'dib of today's world? Strictly in terms of a jihadist hero and figurehead, maybe Osama bin Laden? Yes, he is a villain to us in the West, and rightly so, but there's no denying he has avid supporters in the Arab world. Osama may be no Kwisatz Haderach (thank goodness!) but he certainly seems to inspire the same sort of fanatical devotion in his followers as a Maud'dib.

Back to the spice...what about the opium trade of Afghanistan? How does that stack up as an alternative parallel?

Afghanistan, Iraq, Islam, jihad, occupation by foreigners arrogant in their technology...geez, did Herbert have a crystal ball at his side when he wrote Dune?

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