Ahira's Hangar

You have read that Muad'Dib had no playmates his own age on Caladan. The dangers were too great. But Muad'Dib did have wonderful companion-teachers. There was Gurnsey Halleck, the troubador warrior. You will sing some of Gurnsey's songs as you read along in this book. There was Thufir Hawat, the old Mentat Master of Assassins, who struck fear even into the heart of the old Padishah Emperor. There were Duncan Idaho, the Swordmaster of the Ginaz; Dr. Wellington Yueh, a name black in treachery but bright in knowledge; the Lady Jessica, who guided her son in the Bene Gesserit Way, and - of course - the Duke Leto, whose qualities as a father have long been overlooked.
~ from "A Child's History of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan

In the fourth chapter we learn more of the inhospitable planet of Arrakis. We learn that the Atreides think that there are many more native inhabitants, the Fremen, than there is usually thought to be there. The Fremen hate the Harkonnen, and the Atreides hope to make an alliance with them. Paul mentions the prison planet of Salusa Secundus, which was once the Corrino homeworld before it was ecologically destroyed in an act of war. Paul thinks that Arrakis sounds even worse than the notorious prison planet...it sort of makes you wonder if the tough-as-nails peoples of those two worlds would make good soldiers, doesn;t it?

More importantly, we meet two of the top Atreides aides - Thufir Hawatt the Mentat and Gurnsey Halleck, a warrior. It is made clear that each would be willing to do almost anything to keep Paul safe. That in fact, they are completely and nearly obsessively loyal to House Atreides. Halleck lost a sister to the Harkonnen, and bears a terrible scar that he received in a slave pit on the Harkonnen home world.

Paul tries to talk to Thufir about the things the Rev. Mother said to him, especially about how she thinks his father is doomed. But he finds he cannot speak freely about his interactions and discussions with her. He can talk about some of it, but he realizes that she has put some sort of block on him...which in turn made me wonder yet again about the Bene Gesserit and the odd powers these "witches' seem to have over mind and body... ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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It's been so long since I touched this book that it feels like I'm reading it for the first time. I'd completely forgotten some of the finer details -- such as when Thufir Hawat reminds Paul (and the reader) that House Atreides "isn't one of the big rich ones."

All this time I thought Atreides was one of the wealthiest Houses in the Landsraad. Doesn't really change anything, but it makes me curious about the really "big rich" Houses that have gone unnamed (so far, anyway).

During his chat with Thufir, Paul recalls something the Rev. Mother told him. Makes for another nice quote: "A world is supported by four things...the learning of the wise, the justice of the great, the prayers of the righteous and the valour of the brave. But all of these are as nothing...without a ruler who knows the art of ruling."
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I love that quote. The truth in it really shows in my country right now, but I will not polute this discussion with politics. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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Only problem is that Dune hits you with politics on just about every page.

A comment about the Rev. Mother's mental "gag order" on Paul: this seems to be a common sort of spell used by mystics on their "victims." I see it pop up in fairytales, and it's the same kind of "compulsion" that held Llaura in Lord Foul's Bane and prevented her from giving warning to the Lords about the ur-viles' trap (after the ur-viles had planted the info in her mind, just to be cruel).

I imagine that having this kind of spell over you would be intensely agitating, violating as it does your "freedom of speech" in the most fundamental way. For Paul, being unable to reveal all that the Rev. Mother said may not have been a life-or-death situation (as it was for Llaura in LFB), but still, what a horrible sensation it must be to have the words right on the tip of your tongue without going any further. I'd be banging my head in frustration. Paul, being of course superior in breeding and training, takes it all much more calmly. <i>Edited by: Moonwatcher at: 8/28/06 12:44 pm
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Agreed MW. Politics is an integral part of Dune, as is religion and sociology.

The quote is a fine one, although I don't think that the prayers have much to do with it.

Interesting point about the Houses. Do we ever discover the names of more than the three "central" houses?

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>

Ha! I had a hunch you'd comment on the prayer part of that quote, big atheist that you are.

I might agree with you, but I'm not ready to make any bold assertions just yet. Call me wishy-washy if you will, just don't call me a Harkonnen... <i></i>

I'm a practical atheist. I like the idea of some beliefs, I just don't see any evidence that they're true, nor do I find it likely.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>

We learn the names of several of the Houses in the prequels, though the only one I can remember off the top of my head is the Richesse (spelling?), the House of Leto's mother, they specialized in high tech stuff and were usually allied to the Harkonnen.

Another house we spend a lot of time with in the prequels is the one that rules Ix, and is heavily allied with the Atreides, another House that specializes in high tech (this is the House that builds Highliners for the Guild). I think that was Vernius House? ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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Don't know why the question marks Duchess. You're the only one who's read the prequels.

So none in the main series though? That's what I though. Funny, I never really thought of the Ixians as a house, or the Tleilaxu. Any more than I did the Bene Gesserit.

They are, afterall, the Bene Tleilax.

(Bene, unless I'm mistaken, means "good/OK/well" in Italian, but "Sons" in Hebrew I think.)

--A

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A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>

Herbert probably focused tightly on Atreides, Harkonnen and Corrino (er, House of the Emperor, right?) in order to keep his story from rambling all over the place. It just nags me that it sometimes feels like the Harkonnens and Atreides are going at each other in a political vacuum. Where are the other big Houses during all this intrigue? Are they just dozing through it all? I mean, they aren't even mentioned! Duchess has to dig through the prequels just to find some names! Bah!

I'm just hard on Herbert here because the rest of this universe is so layered with detail. Now, if Tolkien had written Dune, he would've given every single bloody House in the Landsraad its own history going waaay back...

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Yep, the House of the Emperor.

I agree about the lack of depth. The history spans such a long time, it's a great pity that there isn't more detail to it, detail being one of the things I'm most in favour of when it comes to fiction.

Of course, perhaps it isn't so surprising considering that the first three books are essentially prologues to Leto II's Golden Age. It is, in fact, a story of the forging of a new culture/empire/whatever. In which the history that influenced the Atreides and the rest is to be completely overturned.

(The other houses are mentioned in a way though...we're given the distinct impression I think that the vacuum is deliberate. They're all hanging back to see what happens on Arrakis.)

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>

The other Houses might be just plain afraid, too. The Emperor allying with the Baron is a rather fearful thing when you think about it - the other Houses might have had pure simple survival on their minds and stayed as far away from the whole situation as they could, knowing full well it was some sort of trap for the Atreides and possible Atreides allies

Quote:Run away! Run away! to quote Monty Python. ******************************************************

Our lives are the songs that sing the universe into existence.~David Zindell
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Agreed. They're watching to see what happens. If the Emperor wins, then they know that any one of them could be next. They're probably spending this time making contingency plans.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>

Yes, good points, both of you. I was just nitpicking.

Avatar wrote:
Quote:Of course, perhaps it isn't so surprising considering that the first three books are essentially prologues to Leto II's Golden Age. It is, in fact, a story of the forging of a new culture/empire/whatever. In which the history that influenced the Atreides and the rest is to be completely overturned.
Heh, you're really jumping ahead...but anyway, I agree with your assessment. I was thinking similar thoughts, but focused on Dune itself - the planet. I was thinking that Arrakis represented a new beginning, a new order. Then I thought, well...Arrakis has by this time already been mined for its spice for many centuries, so it's hardly a "new" place. Better for me to say that Paul Maud'dib represents the "beginning of the end" of the old empire. In Maud'dib, Arrakis will at last have a leader worthy enough to lead its people (the Fremen).

Btw, is there some easier way to do quotes around here? Not as user-friendly as the Watch, I'm afraid.
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Afraid that's the only way I know to quote here too.

Sorry about the jumping ahead, we can stop doing it if you want.

The begginning of the end indeed. And Paul's terrible purpose is I think a central part of it.

--A ____________________________________

A sense of the sardonic preserves a man from believing in his own pretensions. -The Sayings Of Maud'Dib<i></i>